IRC Log 28
From Fan Made Fallout Development Wiki
Greetings
Session Start: Sun Jun 18 06:55:40 2006
Session Ident: #FanMadeFallout
- Now talking in #FanMadeFallout
- Topic is 'Fan Made Fallout :: The Last Bastion of Hope '
- Set by *.GameSurge.net on Tue May 23 19:36:13
<DarkUnderlord> http://www.fanmadefallout.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2268
<DarkUnderlord> That's the agenda. Now Agrajag, do you want to run this chat?
<Cassidy> OH ME ME ME ME ME!!!!!
<Cassidy> lol
<Cassidy> PICK ME! PICK ME!
The new regime
<[FMF]Agrajag> alright. the new regime
<[FMF]Agrajag> I pick Cassidy
<Cassidy> yeah, what is is this stuff about?
<Cassidy> the new regime
<[FMF]Agrajag> well, first let's recap the last regime
<[FMF]Agrajag> it started when I became beta leader. we make the rule that if you're a dialogue writer, you will have to give status reports at least once every three weeks
<[FMF]Agrajag> and if you don't, whatever you're writing at the moment will be free to claim by everybody else
<[FMF]Agrajag> the short story is that it hasn't been working all that well
<Cassidy> So what is being proposed?
<DarkUnderlord> What parts have been failing?
<[FMF]Agrajag> especially so since I, for about a month, stop sending people warning PMs and keep hassling people
<[FMF]Agrajag> which I did when my computer broke down a while ago
<[FMF]Agrajag> what seems to be the trend is that some people just don't do anything, no matter how much you ask them
<Stevie_D> yeah, you can take a horse to lager, but you can't make it drink
<DarkUnderlord> Actually, you can but it involves things I'd rather not talk about in public.
<[FMF]Agrajag> and even though they manage to be around enough not to get kicked by the rules we used to have, they still don't produce anything
<no_face> what are u proposing?
<DarkUnderlord> Do you have a new regime in mind?
<[FMF]Agrajag> until stevie did "the cleansing" about a week ago, we had a considerable amount of members on the team who still hadn't finished the first dialogue they were assigned. that's FOUR MONTHS of writing, most usually on 1 star dialogues
<[FMF]Agrajag> or rather, four months of not writing
<DarkUnderlord> (And let me be the first to say that I find it odd that no_face abbreviated the 'u' but didn't do so for the 'r'. I mean, if ur going 2 use l337 in 4 a penny in 4 a pound amirite?)
<[FMF]Agrajag> in most of those cases, I can honestly say I've spent more time chasing those lamers around than it would have taken somebody like Z or any other more productive writer on the team to finish their dialogues
<no_face> :D
<Stevie_D> @DU: wtf?
<[FMF]Agrajag> DarkUnderlord: yeah, that struck me as odd too :P
<Cassidy> lol
<DarkUnderlord> So the short answer is, we need more Z's?
<JL_> zzz
<no_face> let's clone 'im
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah, pretty much
<Stevie_D> get Z down the lab at once
<Cassidy> and less C's. :P
<Stevie_D> the shit they can do with stem cells these days
<Stevie_D> we'll have an army
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah, no C's. he's not reliable. he just disappears for months :(
<DarkUnderlord> Who's JL_?
<Cassidy> Sad thing it'll take a couple decades to get them educated enough to be productive.
<Cassidy> no one knows, except JL
<JL_> I thought we already had this conversation...
<JL_> ReaverJoe
<DarkUnderlord> Oh, okay.
<Cassidy> oh
<[FMF]Agrajag> like we would remember :)
<DarkUnderlord> Who's Cassidy?
<[FMF]Agrajag> you people should auth
<JL_> I guess that's what logs are for
<Cassidy> When I asked you said don't mind me and that was it
- Temoid is now known as MR_SPY
<DarkUnderlord> WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE?
<[FMF]Agrajag> in case some MR infiltrator joins and says "hey, I'm Temoid"... omg!
<DarkUnderlord> Anyway, Agrajag, do you have an idea?
<Stevie_D> my £0.02: whatever we come up with, there's no way the guys who go inactive could be spurred into doing anything
<Stevie_D> a timewaster is a timewaster
<DarkUnderlord> Unless we start using the applicants to write out dialogue.
<DarkUnderlord> "For your application, write this 1 star dialogue:
<[FMF]Agrajag> well, since it seems to me like a lot of people are just ending up with a boot up their ass, without writing anything productive, and despite my greatest efforts, I think we should give it to them immediately instead
<DarkUnderlord> : = "
<DarkUnderlord>
<:=)
<Stevie_D> give what, the boot?
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah, kick them asap
<Cassidy> But that would involve giving the applicants detailed information about the NPCs and any quests they are involved in. I think it would be too big of a hassle, but it could work.
<Stevie_D> I agree
<Stevie_D> that's what I would suggest, too
<Stevie_D> also agree with Cassidy
<[FMF]Agrajag> as soon as they show the signs of being guys that we'll eventually kick, we kick them
<DarkUnderlord> What, kick them as soon as they join?
<Stevie_D> although the NPC write-ups are good, they need to be viewed as part fo the bigger picture
<no_face> as far as I can see, all we can do is make that walk to lager as short and as smooth as possible, the rest is up to the horse, we only have to draw a deadline on how long to let her wait without drinking
<DarkUnderlord> Welcome to the team YOU'RE GONE!
<Stevie_D> well, leave it for a month or something
<Stevie_D> since their last post
<DarkUnderlord> 7 days
<Zihuatanejo> could give them a few weeks to NOT SUCK
<[FMF]Agrajag> seriously, since february, we have kicked no less than 23 dialogue writers. now we're down at 12. and that's including Z and Stevie_D
<Stevie_D> as little as 7 days?
<Stevie_D> I don't think it hurts carrying these guys around for a little longer
<Cassidy> Within their first 3 months, if they go inactive for more than 2 weeks without notice they get the el booto!
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think the general idea of the regime we have is a good one, but it has one major problem. in fact, it's got two problems
<DarkUnderlord> We've had a few who've posted in their welcome thread and then never posted again or who have never posted after being accepted.
<Stevie_D> to be honest, I don't think there's much point bandying numbers about
<[FMF]Agrajag> the first one is that it takes some time to manage it
<Stevie_D> when I went through with the boot, I avoided doing Zealot Kho, and he was one of the members who'd been AFK the longest
<[FMF]Agrajag> the second one is that those who don't do, unless we kick them, will just slow us down
<DarkUnderlord> How's about, they join. They get handed a dialogue. They have 1 month to finish it. No excuses.
<DarkUnderlord> If after 1 month all they're saying is "Oh, the cat died" then it's BOOT
<Cassidy> Like I said in a thread somewhere, a lot of the applicants are only applying so that they can see what the story is about.
<Stevie_D> hmm... mebbe. We're a bit short on writable dialoges ATM
<DarkUnderlord> But if after 1 month they've got a reasonable dialogue, we go from there.
<DarkUnderlord> (reaonable being judged on a case by case basis)
The problem with the lack of NPC’s to be written for
<[FMF]Agrajag> the regime we have now would have worked wonders if we could write all the dialogues that we will eventually need at this point
<[FMF]Agrajag> we will need hundreds of dialogues, but there's never more than 0-5 dialogues actually available to write for
<Stevie_D> I say stick with what we've got, but just be more free with el booto
<DarkUnderlord> Forget writing anything and just go back to planning everything?
<[FMF]Agrajag> that's an idea
<Zihuatanejo> after the demo, i think that'd be a good idea
<DarkUnderlord> Keep it to a core group of people, with a few artists etc...
<Stevie_D> yeah, *after the demo*
<DarkUnderlord> And we do what we can at the time.
<Stevie_D> although: do we finish Lone Star first, or tackle a new location?
<DarkUnderlord> So we might be working on planning a bunch of locations until someone says "Need a break, going to write this character up". They do so, then come back into the fray.
<[FMF]Agrajag> ever since Sandover we've been at a constant lack of dialogues to write
<no_face> but we risk loosing everyone else due to lack of work
<Zihuatanejo> i wouldn't mind doing a big Alpha session on the main powers
<Zihuatanejo> V31/Salvation/RR
<DarkUnderlord> Yeah, we need to Z.
<Stevie_D> yeah, I'd be up for that
<Cassidy> Yeah, but we need to do the demo, not just to stir up interest but to raise moral and motivate the current members.
<[FMF]Agrajag> it would be really nice to be able to focus on one thing at a time
<DarkUnderlord> The artists can be managed at the same time, as we plan things and art becomes available.
<no_face> what about coders?
<no_face> (not that we got many)
<DarkUnderlord> Okay, so finishing the demo. What's our status on that? Asks the Project Leader.
<[FMF]Agrajag> to do some, to use Dodger terms, "serious damage" to an alpha location without having to proofread dialogues and managing a team of writers at the same time
<Zihuatanejo> well, we have Agra and Temaperacl who are pretty well up on scripters
<Zihuatanejo> *scripting
<[FMF]Agrajag> hold on, those things are all on the agenda
<[FMF]Agrajag> I want a closure on the regime stuff. what do we decide?
Cracking the demo, and afterwards
<DarkUnderlord> I think we're saying we want what I kind of said but not until the demo is done.
<DarkUnderlord> Which raises the question "What is the regime we use until the demo is done?"
<Cassidy> what did you say?
<DarkUnderlord> Which raised the point about what the demo needs...
<DarkUnderlord> Forget writing anything and just go back to planning everything?
<[FMF]Agrajag> focus all our strengths on the demo, as planned. be more liberal with kicking people who suck. when the demo is finished, we will accept no more writers, and only developers, and we will develop the rest of the mod until alpha-status before we start writing more dialogue?
<DarkUnderlord> Yeah, that sounds better.
<Cassidy> ok
<Cassidy> But...
<[FMF]Agrajag> then we will actually have a huge dialogue list
<Stevie_D> developers = ideas men?
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah
<Cassidy> I don't see the harm in a few of us writing a dialogue here or there.
<DarkUnderlord> Aherm...
<Stevie_D> actually, that would be agreat way to generate interest
<[FMF]Agrajag> it will no longer be a problem if somebody hold on to a dialogue for a few months
<DarkUnderlord> If the demo attracts a lot of writers, we can't use them until we've finished planning.
<Stevie_D> "we want dialogue writers!" reader: yawn
<Stevie_D> "we want ideas men!" reader: w00t!
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah
<MR_SPY> and the majority of ideas men are going to be fags
<MR_SPY> and you know it
<DarkUnderlord> In that case, holding off the demo until we need lots of writers might be better...
<Stevie_D> hopefully, they'll stick around when it comes to writing
<Stevie_D> majority, yeah
<Zihuatanejo> we'll be generating a lot of 1-star dialogues as we go through alpha, though
<Cassidy> WHat I mean is those of us on the team now, once the demo is done we could do a few of the dialogues while planning other things.
<[FMF]Agrajag> that's true Temoid, but we can avoid letting those in
<Stevie_D> but we're experts when it comes to shifting through shit to find the gold
<Zihuatanejo> maybe every so often we could wiki a few, and let the new joinees work on them
<Zihuatanejo> if they're productive, then we put them on alpha
<no_face> I dunno, if we disassemble our whole present system, we risk to loose a lot of ppl
<Stevie_D> which brings us to a point: how do you judge an ideas man when he applies?
<DarkUnderlord> Not to spoil the fun either but I think the current number of planners is sufficient.
<DarkUnderlord> Any more than that and all hell breaks loose.
<Stevie_D> "I invented this neat double-headed candle once. Join plz."
<Zihuatanejo> i think it needs to be done as a writing sample still, stevie
<Zihuatanejo> and if they actually show interest, THEN put them on planning
<DarkUnderlord> IE: Me, Stevie, Agra, Z, SotW and everyone else who pitches in with an idea or three.
- Aniwr has joined #FanMadeFallout
- ChanServ sets mode: +o Aniwr
<Stevie_D> fair enough, DU
<[FMF]Agrajag> I agree with DarkUnderlord there, actually. we don't need an awful lot of new blood
<Stevie_D> what we need is more Mr. Mouflon action
<no_face> I agree that we have enough ppl to plan the game
<no_face> we need code and dialogue monkeys :)
<[FMF]Agrajag> more guys like Z never hurts though
<Zihuatanejo> heh
<JL_> dialogue monkey=writer?
<DarkUnderlord> Who here needs the demo for their own motivation? IE: Who here couldn't go another 2 years without seeing a proper demo of some sort?
<Stevie_D> yup
<Stevie_D> me
<Cassidy> For general idea man apps, I think so long as they can communicate their thoughts well and aren't retarded or immature, there should be no other requirements.
<Stevie_D> n, waity
<Stevie_D> wait
<Stevie_D> I mean, I could go another 2 years without
<Stevie_D> although I think we really SHOULD get the demo done
<Zihuatanejo> i'd like to see the demo, but wouldn't quit if we held off
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think I'd need a demo
<Cassidy> I need the demop
<Cassidy> demo*
<[FMF]Agrajag> at least it would be a tough thing to go on for another two years without anything to show for it
<Stevie_D> I agree
<DarkUnderlord> The problem, as I said, is that doing the demo would attract a lot of new people who'd join and then have nothing to do.
<DarkUnderlord> I remember being in that position previously.
<Stevie_D> well... fuck 'em
<[FMF]Agrajag> hmm, yeah... didn't think of that
<Stevie_D> a lot of us joined when things were looking grim
<[FMF]Agrajag> maybe if we finish the demo and then don't immediately release it?
<DarkUnderlord> We don't need them for ideas, we need them to write.
<[FMF]Agrajag> 1. finish the demo. 2. finish LS, Crossroads and V31. 3. release demo. 4. haul in the monkeys
<Stevie_D> I think that once CotC goes into scripting phase, those who aren't scripting can be working on other areas
<DarkUnderlord> That could work.
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think that's true too, Stevie_D
<no_face> yeah
<no_face> increase alpha
<DarkUnderlord> How much dialogue is left for the demo?
<no_face> decrease beta
<[FMF]Agrajag> a lot of people will end up idle pretty soon, unless they learn how to script
<Stevie_D> so by the time the demo is released: plenty more NPC's to be written for
<Cassidy> I have 1
<Zihuatanejo> not a whole lot
<[FMF]Agrajag> I'm not entirely sure, but we're getting there
<DarkUnderlord> Actually, I was thinking putting Alpha onto the end game (Red River, Vault 31, Salvation, Unified Traders and all that entails).
<Stevie_D> sounds good
<Zihuatanejo> 5-ish, then we'll have at least something for each NPC
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah, that'd be fun
<Cassidy> It sounds good. Finish the demo, the finish planning for LS, CR, and V31 then release the demo.
<Zihuatanejo> we do need to set up exactly what Kunsia, Dogmeat and the coffin-men need to say, though
<[FMF]Agrajag> I'd say we finish the demo purely as a way to test our skills and the system by which we've been writing quests up and all that, and for motivation within the team
<DarkUnderlord> Okay, so we want to complete the demo for our own motivational purposes.
<[FMF]Agrajag> exactly
<Stevie_D> good point Ag
<no_face> meanwhile, what do we do with idle members and new recruits?
<[FMF]Agrajag> and then we alpha stuff until we have a rather convincing list of NPCs to write
<Stevie_D> idle members: boot
<Stevie_D> new recruits... hmm :)
<DarkUnderlord> New recruits can join if we've got something for them to do.
<DarkUnderlord> I wouldn't want to pass up a newbie who might be another Mouflon
<Zihuatanejo> if they have a good application, we should let them in on the off-chance
<Cassidy> We could release the demo to ourselves as soon as its finished, for motivational and testing purposes.
<[FMF]Agrajag> we get locations Alpha-lized until we have a dialogue list of about 50-100 free NPCs
<DarkUnderlord> At the moment, new recruits have been few and far between so it's not too hard to manage.
<DarkUnderlord> We'd get a flood after the demo though (I hope).
<Aniwr> No - testing goes before the release.
<[FMF]Agrajag> then we should be able to keep a large (20-30) number of monkeys busy
<no_face> (unless they all go idle)
<Cassidy> Well something could slip through
<DarkUnderlord> And with a bit of luck, that might be all we're doing as most of the planning would be done.
<Aniwr> Oh, "to ourselves" - nevermind, I can't read.
<[FMF]Agrajag> so we wouldn't release the demo to the public before we have such a big list of NPCs
<no_face> so, for now, stay the same course until the demo is done?
<Zihuatanejo> sounds good - more time for testing
<DarkUnderlord> It would give us a chance to test it ourselves.
<Cassidy> we all get to be beta testers.
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah. I actually wouldn't mind if we kept the finished demo to ourselves for several months
<DarkUnderlord> Okay, that sounds like a plan.
<DarkUnderlord> Agrajag: Recap what we just said.
A recap of all that’s been said so far
<[FMF]Agrajag> Alright. the new plan is as follows
<[FMF]Agrajag> 1. the new regime will be pretty much the same as usual, except we are more liberal with the boot
<[FMF]Agrajag> 2. we will focus all our strength to finish a demo that can be played, just as planned
<Cassidy> potty break
<[FMF]Agrajag> 3. when the demo is finished, we will not immediately release it to the public. we will instead continue to alpha-lize more locations
<DarkUnderlord> 3.5 Starting with working out the main end-game factions (Salvation, Red River, Vault 31, Unified Traders and everything else caught up in that mess)
<[FMF]Agrajag> 4. when we have enough finished locations to make a NPC list which includes roughly 100 dialogues that can be written, we release the demo to the public
<DarkUnderlord> 5. Profit
<[FMF]Agrajag> 5. hopefully the demo don't suck, and we get a new wave of members who want to join. we let them have at the dialogue list
<DarkUnderlord> Any objections / problems with that?
<[FMF]Agrajag> 6. we continue as usual, with the alpha team finishing the brainstorming stuff, and the monkeys writing the dialogue
<Zihuatanejo> sounds good here
<Stevie_D> yup. Happy with that
<Aniwr> Looks good to me
<[FMF]Agrajag> sweet
<DarkUnderlord> It means that for me, I'm going to stop the Salvation stuff I've been toying with and instead throw myself at Quinn.
<[FMF]Agrajag> great
<[FMF]Agrajag> so, next thing on the agenda
<DarkUnderlord> The only other thing I'll keep my eye on is dealingwith the artists.
<Cassidy> I object
<JL_> :|
<Cassidy> just kidding
Progress on the demo
<[FMF]Agrajag> maybe while we're talking about it, let's skip to number 5: The demo: what have we got so far? What do we need? What's the battleplan?
<DarkUnderlord> Yeah, the demo.
<DarkUnderlord> I have to complete Quinn.
<DarkUnderlord> Maps need to be done.
<[FMF]Agrajag> so as we've already stated, we will indeed focus our strengths to actually finish the thing
<Cassidy> I have Jeremiah
<Zihuatanejo> we need to agree on dialogue requirments for Kunsia, Dogmeat and the coffin men
Dialogue
<[FMF]Agrajag> roughly how long time do you guys think we'll need to finish off the rest of the dialogues?
<DarkUnderlord> I've been avoiding the CotC forum.
<Stevie_D> 1 day!
<Zihuatanejo> ha
<[FMF]Agrajag> hehe
<Stevie_D> shoulda finished Daisy yesterday
<Zihuatanejo> few weeks?
<no_face> how many dialogues do we have left?
<[FMF]Agrajag> Kunsia and Dogmeat should need another chat session, I think
<[FMF]Agrajag> or some brainstorming in the forum
<Zihuatanejo> right
<Stevie_D> we need some general NPC's who spout rumours about Daisy once the town knows she's gay
<Stevie_D> I'll rattle them off
<Zihuatanejo> dialogue, or floats?
<[FMF]Agrajag> because their dialogues will require some cool riddles and what not... it's not trivial to write a NPC thread just like that
<DarkUnderlord> How many dialogue's are we talking? 10?
<DarkUnderlord> As in, how many left to do?
<Zihuatanejo> less than that, i think
<DarkUnderlord> How many are completely completed?
<Cassidy> oh while i tihnk of it. Is Kunsia a male or female? the wiki says male in one place and female in another
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think there might be as little as 2-4 unclaimed dialogues
<DarkUnderlord> Eunuch.
<[FMF]Agrajag> then people are of course working on other dialogues
<Zihuatanejo> Kunsia's referred to as He in the bible
<[FMF]Agrajag> Cassidy: he or she is an it. uh, maybe?
<Zihuatanejo> (i think)
<Stevie_D> @Z, a combination of the two, or just floats
<DarkUnderlord> Asexual?
<Zihuatanejo> i've certainly wriiten the Saul and Tensk dialogues with He in mind
<[FMF]Agrajag> no sex, yeah
<Cassidy> I've been doing female in Jeremiah
<[FMF]Agrajag> because the true form does not need to copulate
<Zihuatanejo> argh
<[FMF]Agrajag> so it could be both :)
<DarkUnderlord> Wouldn't this kind of confusion be a good thing for a religion?
<[FMF]Agrajag> maybe that would be a nice thing to add to Jeremiah's dialogue?
<Zihuatanejo> so do you want the dialogues changing?
<DarkUnderlord> Leave it out there? Deliberate "Well is it a boy or a girl rat?"
<Cassidy> how about Kunsia has no real sex, but each person is allowed to refer to Kunsia as male or female, however they wish to imagine her.
<Stevie_D> agree with Cassidy
<DarkUnderlord> Thirded.
<Zihuatanejo> cool
<[FMF]Agrajag> PC: "wait, so you mean Kunsia is a she? But Tenskwatawa refered to her as a him..." HP: "The true form have no sex, for it need not copulate. so spake the sage Karl"
<[FMF]Agrajag> right. so we should be done with the dialogue in not too long
<[FMF]Agrajag> dialogues even
<Cassidy> "However it is easier for our frail human minds to assign kunsia a gender. Some view Kunsia as female, others male.
<no_face> how's the coding aspect of demo coming along?
<[FMF]Agrajag> when the maps are done, we can start to do some serious scripting
Mapping and scripting
<[FMF]Agrajag> the scripting is very slow indeed. I have barely touched it for months
<MR_SPY> I've made about 4 cotc maps so far
<Stevie_D> once Daisy and related NPC's are done, I'd be happy to start scripting training
<MR_SPY> someone else has to step up and do something
<Aniwr> Do we have a deadline for when we need the prototype editor before it starts holding things up, or is it already?
<[FMF]Agrajag> I've been pretty busy the last 1-2 months, and I haven't been able to get back at it since
<Cassidy> Will Lucy/Luke and Jeremiah be on the same map... Just curious.
<[FMF]Agrajag> Cassidy: yes
<Cassidy> no excuses agra. el booto for you.
<[FMF]Agrajag> :P
<[FMF]Agrajag> hmm, one or the other might be in the basement, come to think of it
<[FMF]Agrajag> as for maps, I am yet to write down a good summary thread of the trippy maps and what we really need for that
<Cassidy> I just need to know so Jeremiah will know where to send the player for his trip.
<Cassidy> either down the hall or down the stairs. I don't care.
<[FMF]Agrajag> the map isn't done, so I suppose you can have your pick
<Cassidy> wee ok, down the hall.
<Cassidy> well*
<[FMF]Agrajag> it's easy enough to change if we decide the one you pick won't do it
<DarkUnderlord> Who's doing the mapping for CotC? Temoid has done 4... MF?
<Cassidy> yeah ok
<DarkUnderlord> Temoid's working on the marketplace... A trippy map. What happened to the rat temple? Who took that one?
<[FMF]Agrajag> I don't know
<[FMF]Agrajag> I don't think anybody did
<no_face> I haven't tried the map editor, is it user friendly? Can a couple of ppl be switched from betta to delta for mapping?
<MR_SPY> actually its 3... The Market is done, so is the second trippy map, the first trippy map is being finalized
<Stevie_D> the mapper is a bit... gay, really
<Stevie_D> the interface isn't too bad
<[FMF]Agrajag> no_face: I give it 3/5 stars for user friendliness.
<DarkUnderlord> Mapping's a bitch. Fun but a bitch.
<Stevie_D> but scrolling through all the tiles is a pain in the back passage
<Cassidy> If I was a bit more experienced with the mapper I would do the temple. I started on it a few days ago but got frustrated because I couldn't find the items and such that I wanted.
<[FMF]Agrajag> it's pretty intuitive at start, but actually getting the hang of it is harder. a lot harder
<no_face> I mean, it seems that the coding cant be started without maps and coding is what's gonna take time
<[FMF]Agrajag> for example you will often have to scroll through all existing tiles just to find that one you were looking for
<MR_SPY> there is 3 maps - start coding on those
<MR_SPY> for example, make a complete script for the zombie trippy map, with the zombies moving and talking and everything
<[FMF]Agrajag> the thing with coding is that there are still a lot of work that has to be done before we can actually start. not counting finishing the maps, that is
<[FMF]Agrajag> stuff about headers and... things
<[FMF]Agrajag> well, we could start, but we'd be slowed down pretty quickly
<Stevie_D> once I know more about scripting, could I help out there?
<Cassidy> yeah. I think the things should be in folders and subfolders. Tiles -> floor tiles -> dirt tiles... etc. etc.
<no_face> so should we jump to the "Who wants to be a scripter?" topic?
<Cassidy> would be a lot easier to find what you want
<[FMF]Agrajag> I have 8 scripting items that combined will take me about 50-60 hours to do, on my to-do list
Art
<JL_> um...
<JL_> just out of curiosity, any art stuff needed for demo?
<[FMF]Agrajag> yes
<DarkUnderlord> End game slides for CotC.
<Stevie_D> all the fish stuff, innit
<DarkUnderlord> Opening splashes.
<DarkUnderlord> Quinn Talking Head.
<Stevie_D> I don't think Dodger is going to be any use there ;)
<Zihuatanejo> do we have the boat tiles?
<[FMF]Agrajag> not to mention the boats
<DarkUnderlord> Yeah, a bunch of fish items, including two boats.
<Zihuatanejo> ah - no, then
<DarkUnderlord> No boats as yet.
<Cassidy> We aren't letting him back on the team are we?
<[FMF]Agrajag> so the short answer: yes, we have enough to keep you busy for a while
<[FMF]Agrajag> DU should get around to manage that part
<Cassidy> I vote no
<JL_> It seems the boats and quinn are being worked on by other people, but don't seem to have been updated in months.
<DarkUnderlord> What part?
<[FMF]Agrajag> due to the amount of art we require, it's not good to leave the artists idle
<Cassidy> He's too combative for my tastes.
<[FMF]Agrajag> letting who back on the team?
<DarkUnderlord> No, dodger is not getting back on.
<[FMF]Agrajag> Dodger?
<[FMF]Agrajag> Hahahahahahaha
<Cassidy> Dodger
<[FMF]Agrajag> ahahahahaha
<Cassidy> thank god
<JL_> he so funny
<DarkUnderlord> Yeah, Quinn's being worked on by td who "just needs some days"
<[FMF]Agrajag> all that is said in his public thread is entirely for fun
<DarkUnderlord> That was March
<MR_SPY> "time to cause some serious damage"
<[FMF]Agrajag> he's never, ever getting back on the team
<Cassidy> woo hoo!
<Stevie_D> it's, like, sooooooooo not going to happen
<Cassidy> ok
<[FMF]Agrajag> the "show me a puffer fish" thing is just another diss. even if he did show us something good, he wouldn't get back
<Cassidy> let's move on. I don't want to be up all night.
<[FMF]Agrajag> okay
<DarkUnderlord> We'll work on a specific battleplan for the demo in the forums.
<Cassidy> it's 4 am now. :'(
<JL_> OK.
<Stevie_D> eek
<DarkUnderlord> 5:30 pm actually..
<[FMF]Agrajag> so far as scripting goes, there's a whole bunch of stuff I need to do. I hope to get going on that soon
Who wants to be a scripter?
<[FMF]Agrajag> 6. Who wants to be a scripter?
<Stevie_D> me!
<no_face> lol
<no_face> define "scripting"?
<DarkUnderlord> (By the way Agrajag, I added "Throwing weapons (bolo, sling). " to the agenda)
<Cassidy> scripting confuses me. I had other people do my scripting on my morrowind mods.
<Stevie_D> yeah, it's no mean task, that's for sure
<Stevie_D> I'll have a damn good shot at it, though
<DarkUnderlord> I managed Arcanum's SockMoney and code in PHP so I think I can manage a bit of C.
<[FMF]Agrajag> the idea is that, when the we finally get the ball rolling, we will have a system much like the beta-system, where scripting monkeys can crunch through quests one at a time, and script things
<DarkUnderlord> Time will be the issue though.
<Zihuatanejo> yeah, if you need another one i'll get back to learning scripting
<DarkUnderlord> Dialogue first. Scripting second.
<JL_> I think we're *really* going to need some source control system soon...
<Cassidy> and with scripting comes lots and lots of testing and tweaking.
<[FMF]Agrajag> we will have some sort of source control system. that has been discussed, though I don't quite recall what the outcome was
<DarkUnderlord> I have no idea when it comes to source control systems (like CVS and SVN and all that) so will leave suggestions up to Temaperacl or someone else.
<JL_> We should have it for the dialogue files, too.
<no_face> I'm taking a "C" class right now, and hopefully by the end of summer I might be able to help, but right now I'm pretty brain dead when it comes to linked lists and pass-by references
<Cassidy> what is source control?
<DarkUnderlord> Someone who presumably does...
<[FMF]Agrajag> there is some significant amount of work before we can get to the point where "just another basic scripter" will do a lot of good however
How our future scripting system will evolve
<[FMF]Agrajag> therefore, I see the demo as mostly a practise run. we try to come up with a system that works, by actually doing the scripting
<[FMF]Agrajag> we learn by doing
<Stevie_D> sounds realistic
<Zihuatanejo> no_face, i don't think memory management is an issue
<Stevie_D> in at the deep end; create a system based on what we learn
<DarkUnderlord> We do? I never did. :(
<[FMF]Agrajag> :(
<Zihuatanejo> it's C-style syntax, but different
<[FMF]Agrajag> the syntax doesn't take very long to learn
<no_face> good then
<[FMF]Agrajag> in fact, I think if you have programmed before, you can learn enough to start scripting in a matter of weeks, maybe even days
<Cassidy> What issue are we discussing now?
<DarkUnderlord> If you can 'hello world' via a function in C, you can probably do everything you need to script in Fallout. At a basic level.
<[FMF]Agrajag> anyway, I suspect that scripting will take up a large amount of time. therefore it would be good if we have more than 3 people who can script
<no_face> DU: dunno about that
<[FMF]Agrajag> so apart from Stevie_D, who wants to be a scripter?
<Stevie_D> who wants... to be a millionaire? I do!
<Zihuatanejo> ja
<DarkUnderlord> Temaperacl, Agrajag, DarkUnderlord, Stevie D, Z, no_face
<no_face> count me in
<DarkUnderlord> I think for now, we should see how that goes.
<[FMF]Agrajag> at this point, you can all start by reading my "noob tutorial: how to get started"
<Cassidy> I don't "want" to be a scripter, but I'll try and learn how. It'll help the project along and give me another skill I can use.
<Stevie_D> yeah, definite stage one, that
<[FMF]Agrajag> it should allow you to get the compiler set up. that's a bit tricky, but easy if you know what to do
<Cassidy> I never bothered to really try and learn morrowind scripting.
<DarkUnderlord> We've had two people join specifically to be scripters but both of those have left now.
<Stevie_D> although obviously, it'll be a while before my dialogue commitments are taken care of
<Stevie_D> fuck 'em
<Cassidy> DU: nothing to script.
<DarkUnderlord> Yeah, dialogue first. Scripting second.
<[FMF]Agrajag> of course
<DarkUnderlord> No, we had stuff to script.
<[FMF]Agrajag> but it's probably going to take some time before we have a good system to handle scripters
<Cassidy> oh, my mistake
<DarkUnderlord> Damn straight.
<[FMF]Agrajag> as soon as we are more than 2-3 persons, we need a good system to make it all work together
<Cassidy> lol
<[FMF]Agrajag> that will take a while. but that doesn't mean that those who are interested can start to learn
<[FMF]Agrajag> because that too will take a while
<DarkUnderlord> While we're here... What about proofreaders?
<[FMF]Agrajag> first, do the noob-tutorial to get everything set up. then start to play around with existing scripts
<DarkUnderlord> Anyone that can make a game of Texas Hold'em wins.
<Stevie_D> lol :)
<JL_> Is that going in the demo? :)
<Stevie_D> I'll hack that Team X script to bits
<Stevie_D> err... is there a gambling house in CotC?
<DarkUnderlord> If someone makes it, it will.
<Stevie_D> don't think so
<DarkUnderlord> Nope.
<DarkUnderlord> But demo-wise we can add something in.
<Stevie_D> we could have a bum somewhere that the PC can play
<Stevie_D> fo sho
So you want to be a scripter?
<[FMF]Agrajag> just to finish that topic: those who wants to be a scripter: start out by doing the existing tutorial, and then play around for yourself a bit. ask a lot of questions, and with a bit of effort, you can get started for real as soon as we have a good system for handling scripters
<DarkUnderlord> Sounds good.
Dedicated proofreaders – good idea?
<[FMF]Agrajag> New rules/guidelines for proofreading dialogues. Dedicated proofreaders?
<Stevie_D> hmmm... dunno
<[FMF]Agrajag> it's been suggested that proofreaders should edit minor mistakes in the dialogue
<Stevie_D> not producing enough dialogue to justify full-time proofreaders
<[FMF]Agrajag> that's true...
<Stevie_D> I think the monkeys should jst help one another in that respect
<no_face> for now
An essential part of managing monkeys en masse
<Cassidy> Once we get into the mass monkey stage we should have some dedicated proofreaders.
<no_face> but it'd be nice to have someone long term
<Stevie_D> one day: write; next day: proofread someone else's work
<JL_> Is there like a list of stuff that need proofing?
<[FMF]Agrajag> with the things we decided earlier in this chat, maybe it's superfluous to bother that much about proofreading at this point
<Stevie_D> lol @ mass monkey
<[FMF]Agrajag> when we release the demo, or shortly before, maybe we could hire somebody to become a dedicated proofreader
<[FMF]Agrajag> brb, letting the cat out
<Stevie_D> think some of Zihautanejo's latest produce needs the once-over
<Cassidy> well, if we're going to have 20 dialoguers, we would need more than one.
<Stevie_D> sure, by that stage, I agree
<Zihuatanejo> stevie - yeah, would be much appreciated
<Stevie_D> cool - I'll do that after I finish daisy
<Zihuatanejo> i'll get on that Daisy dialogue shortyly
<Stevie_D> so my to do list:
<[FMF]Agrajag> b
<DarkUnderlord> What's that, stage 3?
<Stevie_D> 1. finish Daisy
<Stevie_D> 2. Proofread Z's dialgoue
<Stevie_D> 3. Do minor NPC's related to Daisy
<[FMF]Agrajag> no_face: you had somebody in mind to be a dedicated proofreader?
<Stevie_D> 4. Learn how to teh script
<no_face> lol
<no_face> actually
<no_face> that first guy who applied to be a proofreader
<[FMF]Agrajag> atticus?
<[FMF]Agrajag> or the guy before him?
<no_face> no
<no_face> before him
<no_face> I kinda contacted him afterwards
<no_face> and he did a fairly decent (and quick) job on proofing the dialogue
<no_face> though, to be fully functional he'd have to be on the team to know NPC's backgrounds and all
<no_face> he's good for grammar
<no_face> (I'm insecure about it)
<[FMF]Agrajag> what's his nick?
<no_face> umm 1 sec
<JL_> Grammar and spelling are pretty easy.
<no_face> danzigstorer
<JL_> Really, the dialoguer should be getting the NPC facts right the first time.
<no_face> it should be everything the first time
<no_face> besides, has anyone tried that Word spell check thingy?
<JL_> Well, I know some people have trouble with grammar and spelling, but the dialoguer's primary job is to know the characters.
<Stevie_D> lol, you tried writing dialogue, JL?
<JL_> :P
<Stevie_D> ;)
<DarkUnderlord> I think the answer is: We'll get a proofreader officially once we hit stage 3 or 5 or whatever it was where we'd done the demo and have more goons coming on board.
<DarkUnderlord> Until then, it'll be everyone checking everyone elses.
Proofreading – not the easy ride it might seem to be
<JL_> You're really asking for two separate jobs then, right? One to get syntax right and one to get story right.
<Stevie_D> not... really
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah, I agree with DU on that
<Stevie_D> err...
<Stevie_D> it's sort of tricky
<DarkUnderlord> That's not a bad idea. Have a pure grammar / spelling checker.
<Stevie_D> basically, the proofreader needs to pick up holes in both elements
<DarkUnderlord> Not now though.
<JL_> But when you say "proofreader", you're asking one person to do both jobs.
<[FMF]Agrajag> possibly we could let him in on the same day the demo is released, so he gets some time to read up before we get our first batches
<Stevie_D> yeah
<Stevie_D> so it's not the easiest job in the world
<Stevie_D> considering they have to be au fait with the quest involvements of the NPC, too
<[FMF]Agrajag> exactly
<[FMF]Agrajag> simply checking grammar and spelling is not really enough
<[FMF]Agrajag> in fact, it's the easiest part of the job
<Stevie_D> I agree
<[FMF]Agrajag> finding things that are missing is much harder. or if the nodes don't fit together properly, etc
<Cassidy> Ok, what of leting the proofreaders make minor spelling and grammar corrections? I vote yes.
<Cassidy> letting*
<Stevie_D> yeah, I think that's a given
<Cassidy> Just have them keep a list of what they corrected and post it.
<DarkUnderlord> Well, yes.
<Stevie_D> or not even a list - just post that they've made changes and uploaded a new draft to the FTP
<JL_> Ah, that's a whole 'nother job: making sure the nodes work right.
<Stevie_D> (otherwise, with a list, it's almost as labour intensive as where we are now)
<[FMF]Agrajag> I vote yes too, but it requires of us two things: 1. he would have to point out what he's changing. for example "changed all OK to okay". 2. the dialogue writer can't write anything more until the feedback has been given, OR, those corrections are only made when the dialogue is otherwise finished
<DarkUnderlord> Yes but proof reading isn't that hard so if they can do one, they can do the other two.
<Cassidy> It takes more time for proofreader A to tell monkey B what to fix than if A had fixed it himself.
<Stevie_D> yeah, we have to be ultra careful to make sure everything is properly communicated
<JL_> (Again, a wiki or repository would help show what's changed and make it easy to revert if it was changed wrong.)
<Stevie_D> lol
<[FMF]Agrajag> it should be fairly easy to set up a rule for those things though
<Zihuatanejo> i would think it'd be better to leave off changing until a dialogue's "finished" by the original writer
<Cassidy> Well, if the monkey submits an unfinished work, just as a progress report, the proofreader wouldn't make any changes, just comments.
<[FMF]Agrajag> maybe we could post the dialogues as text in a wiki-document?
<Stevie_D> I'd like to think we all had enough sense not to correct a dialogue whose writer said was only half done
<Zihuatanejo> true
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah
<[FMF]Agrajag> the writer would have to make sure he gets the latest version from the ftp once he starts going through the list however
<no_face> the only thing's been bother me are the "suggestion" changes
<Stevie_D> again, I think we can count on them having the wits to do so ;)
<Stevie_D> can we? :O
<Stevie_D> ;)
<[FMF]Agrajag> as opposed to just start going through it, and then finding a note at the bottom saying "oh, I also changed all ok to okay."
<Cassidy> But just for clarity's sake, if the monkey submits an unfinished work he needs to state so when he posts it.
<Stevie_D> true dat
<[FMF]Agrajag> okay
The proofreading plan
<[FMF]Agrajag> so to recap this topic
<JL_> It would be cool if the dialogue tool automatically transferred stuff to/from the wiki.
<JL_> But maybe that's asking too much...
<[FMF]Agrajag> 1. we will not have any dedicated proofreaders before the stage where we release the demo to the public. that might well be a year from now
<Stevie_D> the FTP, you mean?
<DarkUnderlord> Both?
<JL_> It would be better to have the dialogues as pages in the wiki, I think
<Stevie_D> I can see there might be some merit in that
<[FMF]Agrajag> 2. proofreaders may not correct minor mistakes in the dialogue, but only if the dialogue is otherwise finished. in so doing, he must also point out what changes he made, and make it clear that the dialogue has been edited, so the writer will get the latest version before he starts correcting the dialogue.
<DarkUnderlord> In some ways, not really.
<Stevie_D> "may not" or "may"?
<DarkUnderlord> Though the wiki's "compare" options would be kinda neat to use on a dialgue.
<Stevie_D> @DU: yeah, not of earth-shattering importance
<Stevie_D> @Ag: vital typo in the first line, innit?
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think the ftp would work good enough. potentially we could start adding numbers to the dialogues, so that we can see the progress of it
<DarkUnderlord> Eww... No.
<DarkUnderlord> Last thing I want is "Abraham_57.fmf"
<[FMF]Agrajag> other than that, I don't see the reason why we need to compare the dialogues anyway. so long as we're making sure that everybody always have the latest version
<DarkUnderlord> Keep it to the one. The writer is responsible for any backups.
<[FMF]Agrajag> okay
A diversion into the question of backups
<JL_> speaking of backups... Is anyone making any?
<Stevie_D> shit loads
<Stevie_D> I have four or five
<JL_> ok, cool.
<[FMF]Agrajag> backups of what?
<Stevie_D> of my work, at least
<JL_> stuff put on the ftp.
<[FMF]Agrajag> I'm yet to make any backups of everything on the ftp and wiki and forums... out of pure laziness, really
<[FMF]Agrajag> actually, I'll make one after the chat
<Stevie_D> teh cool
<[FMF]Agrajag> though DU usually makes one a week, ain't that right?
<JL_> ok, good deal.
<no_face> I thought the dialogue tool automatically makes backups?
<DarkUnderlord> Once a week, yep.
<DarkUnderlord> Or there abouts.
<Stevie_D> @ no_face: this is copies of the entire project
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah. we're talking about backups of everything now though. I think
<Stevie_D> there are cunts out there who would gladly wipe out all our stuff for the lol
<Stevie_D> they did it to Fallout Yurop
<[FMF]Agrajag> they did?
<Zihuatanejo> damn
<Stevie_D> yup
<[FMF]Agrajag> and they had no backup? :(
<Stevie_D> their forums are a ghost town, populated by bots, now
<Stevie_D> yeah - more fool them, innit
<[FMF]Agrajag> that really shouldn't have to happen for FMF
<Stevie_D> nah, I think we're quite safe from their insignificant rebellion
<[FMF]Agrajag> that's reassuring
<[FMF]Agrajag> okay, next thing
<JL_> :)
New ideas for throwing weapons
<[FMF]Agrajag> throwing weapons, anybody?
<Stevie_D> ah, yeah
<Stevie_D> teh bolas etc.
<DarkUnderlord> Bolo and sling.
<[FMF]Agrajag> what about an old fashioned vote?
<Cassidy> I made a post on the forums regarding this. Has anyone looked?
- MF has joined #FanMadeFallout
<[FMF]Agrajag> should FMF include a sling weapon. yay/nay?
<DarkUnderlord> I like the idea of the bolo. It provides some nice tactical options for a throwing player.
<Stevie_D> I feel embarrassed about bigging up the Y catapult ide!
<Stevie_D> idea
<MF> hey guys
<Stevie_D> yeah - basically it makes Throwing semi-feasible?
<[FMF]Agrajag> hi MF
<Stevie_D> hey up, MF
<DarkUnderlord> Do we want a Y catapult as well? Like in Vault 31 in the hands of a kid?
<Stevie_D> nah - no animation, innit
<DarkUnderlord> It'd be one of those completely useless but some-what fun items.
<Stevie_D> oh right
<Stevie_D> not actually a weapon per se
<DarkUnderlord> Though it'd do a bit of damage. And make kids fun to fight...
<[FMF]Agrajag> more like the BB gun then :)
<[FMF]Agrajag> or pipe rifle even
<Cassidy> what's this Y thingie?
<Stevie_D> oh. This is the thing - what animation would it use?
<JL_> slingshot, wrist rocket, etc?
<Stevie_D> you know, a Y shaped stick with a piece of elastic between the two forks
<Cassidy> oh
<DarkUnderlord> Slingshot
<MF> http://www.knifethrowing.info/throwing_cards.html
<Cassidy> I used to have several of them. Was quit a good aim with them too.
<Stevie_D> fucking nasty things in the wrong hands
<[FMF]Agrajag> 
<DarkUnderlord> Playing cards aren't lethal.
<DarkUnderlord> SO SAYS MYTHBUSTERS!
<JL_> http://www.catsdomain.com/
<[FMF]Agrajag> the ancient sling is more lethal than the Y-sling though, innit?
<Stevie_D> lol - critical someone with a pack of Tragic
<Stevie_D> @Ag, I think so
<Stevie_D> just ask Goliath (groan)
<Cassidy> Stevie: lol
<[FMF]Agrajag> they were actually used in war, in the old days
<DarkUnderlord> Ye olde times.
<DarkUnderlord> tymes.
<[FMF]Agrajag> exactly :)
<Cassidy> I say yes to the sling, no the Y thing
<Stevie_D> me too
<[FMF]Agrajag> same here
<DarkUnderlord> I like the idea of a kids version.
<DarkUnderlord> .. or kids having just a sling.
<[FMF]Agrajag> having both sounds like an exaggeration
<Stevie_D> I mean, the ye olde sling semi-works with the throwing animation, too
<Cassidy> well a kids version of the sling...
<JL_> Aw, I wanted the laser-sighted one.
<MF> I know they aren't lethal, but who cares, the myth is there
<Cassidy> a bit smaller with a shorter range?
<DarkUnderlord> Toothpicks!
Ye olde tyme slinge-shotte (‘n’ ammo)
<[FMF]Agrajag> the sling actually sort of fits, imo... that's a part of fallout - humanity is brought back to ye olde tymes because of ze war. that means you get to use ye olde weapons :D
<[FMF]Agrajag> like rocks and spears... and slings
<Cassidy> As for ammo, I'd rather not repeat myself. If anyone has not checked the thread and seen my post, please do so now. http://www.fanmadefallout.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=23448&sid=24694df9b48508927512584fd1e37046#23448
<Stevie_D> okay
<MF> And that nasty piece of metal junk is better ammo for your sling than rocks
<Stevie_D> to keep things simple, I'd say that the only items you can use in a sling are rocks, gold rocks and uranium
<DarkUnderlord> Uranium would be nice and heavy.
<Stevie_D> (was it DU who mentioned Uranium?)
<DarkUnderlord> THWACK
<JL_> Heh...
<DarkUnderlord> Radiatin damage
<Cassidy> No... grenades too! :'(
<Stevie_D> wouldn't it give the PC rad sickness?
<DarkUnderlord> Why sling grenades though?
<Cassidy> longer range
<Cassidy> why sling rocks?
<Stevie_D> sorry, C - personally I'd draw the line before grendaes
<DarkUnderlord> You can alreay throw as far as the sling.
<Cassidy> really?
<Cassidy> 35 hexes?
<DarkUnderlord> Can't you throw something like 20 hexes for grenades?
<DarkUnderlord> 15
<Cassidy> Ithought throwing distance was based on your str + any perks
<MF> uranium? depleted uranium right? not unstable actual uranium?
<DarkUnderlord> Uranium Ore actually.
<DarkUnderlord> So nothing more than a normal rock.
<MF> ah ok
<DarkUnderlord> But keeping it to just *rocks* is what I think we should do.
<Cassidy> you can hold raw uranium ore without any ill effects.
<DarkUnderlord> The sling then has benefit.
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think the throwing range is based only on str
<Stevie_D> is that right?
<Stevie_D> about the Uranium ore, I mean
<Aniwr> Sorry for getting here late and leaving early, but I've got to run.
<Cassidy> yeah. I watched it on the history channel
<Stevie_D> no worries, Tema
- Aniwr has quit IRC (Quit: -Gone- )
<Stevie_D> well, shit. I didn't knwo that :)
<[FMF]Agrajag> I reckon that depends on how long you hold it
<Cassidy> raw uranium is harmless. I don't know about continued exposure, but just holding for a while looking at it won't hurt you.
<DarkUnderlord> I don't think so.
<DarkUnderlord> I thought grenades had a range?
<[FMF]Agrajag> it's radioactive, so you're bound to get a lethal dose of radiation sooner or later
<JL_> Huh... Wikipedia says that depleted uranium is a little less radioactive than regular uranium.
<JL_> I guess that makes sense.
<[FMF]Agrajag> Range: 15
<DarkUnderlord> Of course it is, it's depleted.
<[FMF]Agrajag> for frag grenades
<Cassidy> It only has damaging levels of radiation after it has been processed.
<DarkUnderlord> My thought is, as a game balance thing, it's nice and easy to keep the sling to just rocks.
<DarkUnderlord> It makes them a nice lethal weapon (with a few crit perks).
<DarkUnderlord> Grenades are powerful enough already, so don't really need a boost.
<DarkUnderlord> ... range-wise that is.
<Cassidy> though continued exposure may allow some acumilation(sp?) and make you sick.
<JL_> Yeah, rocks seemed pretty useless otherwise.
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah, maybe you're right
<DarkUnderlord> It then means a throwing player has a choice.
<Stevie_D> rocks only for the win
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think it should include uranium and gold too though
<Stevie_D> cracking someone with a lump of gold, though - lol
<DarkUnderlord> Long range (and anything over 15 is pretty far away) they can sling. Short range they can cause serious damage.,
<[FMF]Agrajag> obviously the one with the highest density would deal the most damage
<Stevie_D> most expensive death ever
<[FMF]Agrajag> when doing some research on the sling, I found a page that said it was common that they used heavier things than rocks, such as lead, to deal more damage
From sling to bolas
<DarkUnderlord> The bolo I like because with a long enough range (perhaps slightly less than the sling), a throwing player can keep long range enemies away from them for a few turns.
<Stevie_D> oh, this is the trip-me-up weapon
<Stevie_D> yeah, I like it
<DarkUnderlord> Yeah, hit crit chance to break legs would slow them down. Even just a high chance to knock them over would cost them AP.
<[FMF]Agrajag> so the bolo would be a fast thing to throw then?
<Cassidy> I was thinking 2 hex range per point of strength.
<DarkUnderlord> I reckon. 2 - 3 AP?
<[FMF]Agrajag> like... 3-4 ap?
<DarkUnderlord> 3 it is then.
<Stevie_D> what, the bola?
<DarkUnderlord> Bolo
<[FMF]Agrajag> add fast shot and bonus rate of fire and that's 1 ap
<Stevie_D> seems a bit low to me
<DarkUnderlord> Can somone confirm the strength = throwing range?
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah, it's not realistic
<Stevie_D> if you've got NPC's on your side plugging away too
<Stevie_D> I mean, that's when I'd use it
<DarkUnderlord> Does fast shot affect throwing weapons?
<Stevie_D> Sulik/Cassidy blasting away
<[FMF]Agrajag> I don't know
<[FMF]Agrajag> maybe it doesn't
<Cassidy> wait
<[FMF]Agrajag> if it doesn't, I think we should have a "fast pitcher" perk or something
<DarkUnderlord> Sorry, Bolas
<Stevie_D> noob
<DarkUnderlord> I like a fast pitcher perk idea.
<DarkUnderlord> Throwing bolas 1 ap would be pretty killer though...
<DarkUnderlord> WUMCHUKA WUMCHUKA WUMCHUKA WUMCHUKA WUMCHUKA 5 guys go donw.
<Stevie_D> lol
<Cassidy> lol
<DarkUnderlord> 2 with broken legs, 2 fall over and 1 still standing.
<[FMF]Agrajag> hehe
An NPC somewhere (Rusty Springs) who can make bolas
<JL_> But where would you get them in the game? common?
<Stevie_D> oh... Rusty Springs
<[FMF]Agrajag> maybe you can make them yourself?
<Stevie_D> where they make leather goods
<[FMF]Agrajag> 1 rope + 2 rocks
<MF> you can balance it by requiring such a high throwing skill that you'll pretty much always miss when it's under 75
<JL_> OK.
<DarkUnderlord> 
<Cassidy> cool
<Stevie_D> that's rather cool
<Stevie_D> or have an NPC who can make 'em
<Stevie_D> Myron style
<[FMF]Agrajag> maybe you can have bola +1 and bola +2, which are made of gold and uranium... ;)
<DarkUnderlord> The weapon is usually used to entangle the animal's legs, but thrown with enough force might even break the bone.
<DarkUnderlord> I think Rusty Springs.
<Cassidy> critical hit!
<Stevie_D> "here, take these rocks and this rope and make a bola for me"
<Cassidy> broken legs
<DarkUnderlord> A few on sale around the place but manufactured by the leather guy in RS.
<[FMF]Agrajag> a perk that is learned somewhere? by someone? like the skinning perk
<DarkUnderlord> I think you should pick the perk.
<DarkUnderlord> We have enough learned perks.
<Cassidy> what perk?
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah, I agree
<Cassidy> fast pitcher?
<Stevie_D> I don't think the PC should be able to make them
<DarkUnderlord> "Fast thrower" and "more crit damage for throwing weapons"
<DarkUnderlord> I agree with Stevie. No PC making.
<Cassidy> ok. what are their requirements?
<Stevie_D> two rocks? or is it three?
<Cassidy> I mean the perks
<DarkUnderlord> There is no uniform design; most bolas have two or three balls, but there are versions of up to 8 balls. Some bolas have balls of equal weight, others vary the knot and cord. Gauchos use bolas made of braided leather cords with wooden balls or small leather sacks full of stones in the ends of the cords.
<DarkUnderlord> Bolas can be named depending on the amount of weights used:
<DarkUnderlord> * Perdida (1 weight)
<DarkUnderlord> * Avestrucera o ñanducera (2 weights)
<DarkUnderlord> * Boleadora (3 weights)
<DarkUnderlord> * Ka-Lum-Ik-Toun (Eskimo name for bolas with 4 or more weights)
<DarkUnderlord> Bolas of three weights are usually designed with two shorter cord with heavier weights, and one longer cord with a light weight. The heavier weights flying at the front parallel to each other, hit either side of the legs, and the lighter weight going around, wrapping up the legs.
<DarkUnderlord> Other unrelated versions include qilumitautit, the bolas of the Eskimos, made of sinew and bone weights and used to capture water birds.
<Stevie_D> the one I'm thinking of is the three ball kind
<DarkUnderlord> Here endeth the Wikipedia lesson.
Bola stats
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think the bolas should take at least 3 ap to throw. actually, three sounds good. weight: 3lbs. cost: 50-150 caps
<Stevie_D> Prof Wiki strikes again
<[FMF]Agrajag> dmg: 0-2
<JL_> All praise Wiki.
<Stevie_D> you know, I'd make it four, m'self
<Stevie_D> 4 AP, that is
<Stevie_D> if anything, harder to 'fire' than a gun
<DarkUnderlord> Given we're facing a potential reduction of 2 AP, I agree.
<Stevie_D> swish-Swish-SWISH THROW
<[FMF]Agrajag> can't really use that kind of logic though
<[FMF]Agrajag> it takes three times as much ap to fire a gun than to reload it
<DarkUnderlord> Sure I can. See? I just did!
<DarkUnderlord> It's magic.
<[FMF]Agrajag> hehe
<Stevie_D> in that case, same AP as a non-aimed gunshot, says I
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think 4, max
Concerns about bolas being overpowered/NPC’s with bolas
<Cassidy> Fast Thrower: You have an arm of the angels and as such can throw things just a bit quicker than most. This perk reduces the AP cost to throw an item by 1. - Requirements: Strength 6, Throwing 75
<Stevie_D> "arm of the angels"?
<[FMF]Agrajag> on hit, the target have to pass an agility roll to not fall over?
<[FMF]Agrajag> or he always falls over on hit?
<Cassidy> just something funny to say.
<Stevie_D> who's a famous, old school baseball player?
<Stevie_D> Babe Ruth?
<DarkUnderlord> "League Pitcher"
<Stevie_D> "You have the arm of Babe Ruth"?
<JL_> Babe was not a pitcher
<Stevie_D> damn
<Cassidy> sure
<[FMF]Agrajag> it would be annoying if you always fell over... suppose the enemy raiders have bolas
<Stevie_D> oh yeah, lol
<MF> one thing
<[FMF]Agrajag> then again, they're otherwise useless, so...
<Stevie_D> make sure they're restricted. TO THE MAX
<MF> there's no way you're going to fall over in power armor
<Cassidy> why not? wouldn't be fair if they didn't have them.
<MF> you'll just rip the cord to shreds
<DarkUnderlord> If they're useless, no-one will use them.
<[FMF]Agrajag> I don't buy that argument
<Cassidy> Power armor negates their effect.
<[FMF]Agrajag> rope can be strong enough to hold back a pair of power armoured legs
<Stevie_D> yeah, see the massive walkers in the Empire Strikes Back!
<Stevie_D> bolas (of sorts) took them right the fuck out
<Cassidy> that was steal cable or something wasn't it?
<[FMF]Agrajag> the bolas don't break yer legs though
<[FMF]Agrajag> if you have power armour
<DarkUnderlord> Yeah, that I'd take but unbalancing should.
<DarkUnderlord> Of course, the PC is special so a few crits and he can do anything.
<Stevie_D> agreed
<[FMF]Agrajag> haha
<DarkUnderlord> It's like the slayer perk.
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah
<Cassidy> Can you aim bolas?
<[FMF]Agrajag> so on hit, the target always falls over?
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think not
<DarkUnderlord> No aim.
<Cassidy> aim it at their eyes? lol
<[FMF]Agrajag> haha
<Stevie_D> lol, that would be funny
<DarkUnderlord> You can aim the sling.
<DarkUnderlord> Not always.
<Cassidy> have it tie around their neck and strangle them to death. lol
<[FMF]Agrajag> "was critically hit in the eye for no damage, with no protection there, causing massive pain, and breaks his legs"
<DarkUnderlord> A higher chance than normal of making a fall over, especially with a hig throwing skill but not always.
<[FMF]Agrajag> ok, so the target has to pass a roll if he is hit. on failure, he falls over
<[FMF]Agrajag> on critical failure, he breaks his legs
The ‘Fireballer’ Throwing perk
<DarkUnderlord> So if 'Fast Shot' doesn't affect throwing, then we'll have some kind of "Major league pitcher" perk for faster throwing.
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah
<Stevie_D> I can see the picture for that already :)
<[FMF]Agrajag> :D
<DarkUnderlord> .. and a few that seriously increase your chances of making critical hits with the sling or bolas (break legs)
<Stevie_D> Fallout boy with large glove and baseball cap
<Stevie_D> Charlie Brown me up one time
<MF> Anybody read Asterix The Champion?, with that spearthrower with one really large arm for throwing and one pathetic arm?
<Cassidy> Have him in the windup
<MF> I imagine fallout boy that way
<DarkUnderlord> "In baseball, a pitcher who throws the ball very fast is a fireballer. Notable fireballers include Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens."
<Stevie_D> MF: yeah :)
<Stevie_D> woah, top name for the perk
<Stevie_D> Fireballer
<Cassidy> So name the perk "Fireballer"
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah
<MF> sounds good
<MF> i'm getting breakfast brb
<Stevie_D> mmmm breakfast
<[FMF]Agrajag> mmmm breakfast *drool*
<DarkUnderlord> "Colloquially, use of the fastball is called throwing heat or putting steam on it, among many other variants."
<[FMF]Agrajag> 
<Stevie_D> "Fireball: you put some serious steam on any item you throw"
Those bola stats in full again
<[FMF]Agrajag> okay, so the stats for bolas:
<[FMF]Agrajag> weight: 3lbs
<[FMF]Agrajag> cost: ?
<Cassidy> 3 pounds each
<[FMF]Agrajag> dmg: 0-3
<[FMF]Agrajag> min str: 3
<Cassidy> doesn't the min damage have to be at least 1?
<[FMF]Agrajag> range: 20
<Stevie_D> (Picture of flame-trailing ball, with Fallout boy in the background, arm outstretched, teeth gritted with determination)
<DarkUnderlord> High chance of knocking the target over. On critical hit, you break their legs.
<[FMF]Agrajag> ap: 4
<Cassidy> no I'd say to throw them you'd need at least str 4.
<DarkUnderlord> Sorry, break *a* leg.
<Stevie_D> or weight: however much 3 rocks weigh
<[FMF]Agrajag> on hit, the target have to pass a skill roll (agility roll?). on success, nothing happens. on failure, he falls over
<[FMF]Agrajag> on critical failure, he falls over and breaks his legs
<[FMF]Agrajag> or "cripples" his legs
<Cassidy> a leg*
<Cassidy> ?
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think 1 rock weigh 1 pound
<Cassidy> yeah they do
<Stevie_D> yeah, just the one leg, I say
<Stevie_D> okay, cool
<Stevie_D> 3 pounds it is?
<DarkUnderlord> Aye
<[FMF]Agrajag> sounds good
<DarkUnderlord> Sling?
<[FMF]Agrajag> range: 25+str
<Cassidy> We also need to make rocks more available.
<[FMF]Agrajag> ammo: rocks, gold nuggets and uranium ore
<Cassidy> how about 25*str?
<Cassidy> lol
<Cassidy> or 25/str?
<DarkUnderlord> Hah
Slingshot damage
<[FMF]Agrajag> dmg rocks: 10-15. dmg uranium ore: 15-20. dmg gold nugget: 20-25
<[FMF]Agrajag> does that sound good?
<Cassidy> Anyhow, Ithink 25+str is good.
<Cassidy> yeah
<[FMF]Agrajag> if 25+str is not possible due to game restrictions, I'd say 30
<DarkUnderlord> Higher than normal chance of criticals I think with the sling. Even more so with the perk
<Cassidy> 25+str would be 35 max
<Stevie_D> that sounds like an awful lot
<[FMF]Agrajag> that's part of what's good with it though
<Cassidy> well it's a sling, designed to hurl rocks much farther really.
<Stevie_D> what does a 10mm JHP round do, from the basic pistol?
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think 1 gold nugget is 10lbs
<[FMF]Agrajag> so you can't have a lot of them
<JL_> Are uranium and gold nuggets still available in fmf?
<[FMF]Agrajag> Stevie_D: 5-12
<Stevie_D> :(
<Cassidy> Can we recover our rocks and ore?
<[FMF]Agrajag> we have the uranium mine
<[FMF]Agrajag> so I'd say yes
<DarkUnderlord> I think so.
<JL_> ok.
<DarkUnderlord> And Bolas too
<Stevie_D> a rock hurts more than a bullet?
<DarkUnderlord> On a sling, why not.
<Cassidy> but does less lasting damage
<Stevie_D> that doesn't strike you as ludicrous?
<Cassidy> not with the slingthough
<JL_> It'd be pretty funny to see a body explode on a slingshot critical. :)
<Cassidy> not really
<Cassidy> yeah it would JL
<Stevie_D> you guys have been at the Dream Juice
<DarkUnderlord> I mean really... What do you want?
<Cassidy> sling a rock and their head blow off. lol
<Stevie_D> the gold nugget would be more powerful than a *shotgun blast*
<DarkUnderlord> A sharpened spear does as much damage as a bullet.
<DarkUnderlord> If I flung a rock at 150 mph at your face, it'd hurt.
<Cassidy> rightfully so too
<Stevie_D> :|
<Stevie_D> *checks calender to see if it is April 1st*
<DarkUnderlord> A Cattle Prod does twice as much damage as a bullet.
<DarkUnderlord> A cattle prod is used on cattle.
<Cassidy> a big rock with a good density at 150 mph will kill you if it hits you in the face.
<DarkUnderlord> It delivers a small electric shock.
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think the speed of the rock is closer to 60mph though. not that that wouldn't hurt
<Stevie_D> ah well. So long as you guys think it's justifiable, I'm cool
<DarkUnderlord> Big rocks were used to knock down walls in the Middle Ages.
<DarkUnderlord> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet
<Cassidy> Well, we can't get it exactly realistic. I mean, if I shoot a guy in the eyes he's dead, not hit for 8 hp.
<Stevie_D> but, and I'll say it one last time - a *shotgun blast*
<[FMF]Agrajag> Experiments demonstrate that missiles leave a sling in excess of 60 miles per hour. One Roman writer noted that opponents in leather armor were in far greater danger from sling missiles than arrows. Even if the stone did not penetrate the armor, it was capable of inflicting a fatal internal injury
<[FMF]Agrajag> Unarmored bodies were easily penetrated by sling stones.
<Stevie_D> I built a working trebuchet out of lego once
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think we would have to tweak the values anyway
<[FMF]Agrajag> when testing it
<Stevie_D> hokay
<Cassidy> yeah, probably
<[FMF]Agrajag> we don't want it to be imba or anything
<Cassidy> imba?
<Stevie_D> imba?
<[FMF]Agrajag> maybe since rocks are so common, the damage is reduced... for uranium and gold, the damage difference is greater
<[FMF]Agrajag> since they weigh a lot, and are uncommon
<[FMF]Agrajag> imbalanced
<Stevie_D> fair enough
<DarkUnderlord> Whatever works.
<DarkUnderlord> So bolas and sling are in.
The kid/Y-shaped slingshot – it’s a resounding ‘no’
<DarkUnderlord> Kid slingshot?
<[FMF]Agrajag> right.
<Stevie_D> or rather, keep the values you have for the rare stuff, but lower the rock damage
<[FMF]Agrajag> I'd throw the kid slingshot into FMF: the extended version
<DarkUnderlord> Bart Simpson style?
<DarkUnderlord> Or Denis the Menace.
<Stevie_D> dunno, to repeat myself, we don't have an animation for a character using said catapult
<[FMF]Agrajag> that's true
<DarkUnderlord> Just use the throwing animation
<Stevie_D> so it could only be an inert item
<[FMF]Agrajag> haha
<Stevie_D> gay
<[FMF]Agrajag> that would look ridiculous
<Cassidy> So I really fail to see a reason to have child's version of the sling.
<DarkUnderlord> For bolas and a sling? It'll be fine.
<[FMF]Agrajag> we could have one that can't be used, maybe?
<Stevie_D> yeah, that's sort of what the arm does when you use one
<Stevie_D> that's what I was thinking
<Stevie_D> it could count as a toy, as per the Toys for the children quest?
<[FMF]Agrajag> the throwing animation is good for bolas and slings, but not for the kid slingshot
<Stevie_D> yup
<DarkUnderlord> I was really just after a yay / nay vote.
<Stevie_D> okay
<Cassidy> yay
<DarkUnderlord> On whether we should worry about the kid slingshot.
<Stevie_D> yay to bola and sling
<[FMF]Agrajag> ok. so I vote nay/extended version/unusable item
<[FMF]Agrajag> to the kid slingshot
<Cassidy> oh, nay
<[FMF]Agrajag> yay to bola and sling
<Stevie_D> nay to usable kid slingshot
<DarkUnderlord> Bola and sling are in already... I'm talking about the kid version specifically.
<Cassidy> yay bola and sling, nay kiddie catapult
<Stevie_D> consensus reached, doogs
<DarkUnderlord> Next topic.
<[FMF]Agrajag> that's either a nay, a "put it in the extended version" or keep it as an unusable item
<DarkUnderlord> At this stage, I'd keep it out.
<Cassidy> I say nay all the way
<DarkUnderlord> As an item in toys for the children has some merit but... eh.
<Stevie_D> agreed: I'd rather nay it out of the picture entirely
<DarkUnderlord> If we can't use it. No real point.
<Cassidy> I'm not a fan of having items that the player can't use.
<[FMF]Agrajag> right
The MR/FMF tie ins and Baxter and Cassidy
<[FMF]Agrajag> The MR/FMF tie ins and Baxter and Cassidy.
<Stevie_D> okay
<Stevie_D> I'm all for it
Zihuatanejo’s tie-in with the Baxter Boys quest
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah, I like Z's suggestion to use Cassidy for the baxter boys quest
<Stevie_D> especially since Z's idea re; tying it to the Baxter Boys quest
<[FMF]Agrajag> ^^
<Stevie_D> doh
<[FMF]Agrajag> so how old are they?
<Cassidy> 18 and 14?
<[FMF]Agrajag> I would say that we make them as old as in the baxter quest
<Stevie_D> whatever works, really
<Stevie_D> yeah
<JL_> Have to ensure they can't be killed?
<DarkUnderlord> Somewhere in the 14 - 18 range.
<[FMF]Agrajag> and no talking head for Cassidy, me thinks
<Stevie_D> an adolescent Cassidy, lol
<DarkUnderlord> No.
<Cassidy> which was? I didn't look.
<DarkUnderlord> If PC kills them, he kills them.
<[FMF]Agrajag> if they are killed, they are killed. it can't be helped
<Stevie_D> hey, we could have Cassidy's old man, too
<Cassidy> No, if he isn't going to have a big part, no head.
<DarkUnderlord> It's like how FO2 picked a certain ending for FO1.
<JL_> But think of the chronodistortion!
<DarkUnderlord> MR would do the asme.
<Stevie_D> you know, Cassidy talks about something his old man said when he was a kid
<Cassidy> Iwas hoping for an early 20's cassidy to be a follower. :'(
<Stevie_D> in FO2
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah, if you lose FO1, no FO2
<DarkUnderlord> I too am all for Z's idea.
<[FMF]Agrajag> or if you kill tandi...
<DarkUnderlord> No to being followers though.
<Stevie_D> we could have his dad saying that
<DarkUnderlord> NO PREZIDENT OMG!
<JL_> ag: good point
Can we reuse Mr. Mouflon’s Baxter dialogue?
<Zihuatanejo> there's dialogue already written for the baxters
<Zihuatanejo> would we want to just change some names
<Zihuatanejo> or rewrite it completely? whose work is that dialogue?
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think it all fits in rather nicely. they escape and go west
<Stevie_D> Mr. Mouflon's
<[FMF]Agrajag> Cassidy appears in FO2, then in MR
<Stevie_D> might be easily enough adapted - I'd like to think so
<Cassidy> Well I'm off to bed. Good night all.
<[FMF]Agrajag> changing names is easy enough imo
- Cassidy has quit IRC (Quit )
<Stevie_D> night Cass
<[FMF]Agrajag> goodnight Cassidy
<Zihuatanejo> yeah, looking at it it should be quite easily doable
<[FMF]Agrajag> then we have a nice and subtle reference to MR
<[FMF]Agrajag> all good?
<DarkUnderlord> All good
<Stevie_D> sounds like a winner
MR-related posters and grafitti
<DarkUnderlord> Do future chats first
<[FMF]Agrajag> what about posters/grafitti?
<DarkUnderlord> Yes to posters and grafitti
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think so too. after all, they had Interplay grafitti in fallout
<[FMF]Agrajag> so we have our artists make some FMF grafitti and a poster, and we send it over to MR, asking them to do the same
<[FMF]Agrajag> or we make it all?
<Stevie_D> *replace* the Interplay graffitti with MR substitutes?
<[FMF]Agrajag> by the way, our logo? is it finished?
<JL_> Which?
<[FMF]Agrajag> I think it would be fun to have FMF > MR scribbled on a wall somewhere :P
<Stevie_D> lol :)
<[FMF]Agrajag> uh, the logotype... forgot who made that one
<DarkUnderlord> Not quite on the logo.
<DarkUnderlord> JL did
<[FMF]Agrajag> oh
<[FMF]Agrajag> it could be used as part of the poster perhaps?
<[FMF]Agrajag> anyway, we should hassle MR for a poster or grafitti, so we can add it to the maps in CotC
<DarkUnderlord> http://www.fanmadefallout.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1911
<Stevie_D> I prefer the original medallion
<[FMF]Agrajag> me too
<DarkUnderlord> me 3
<JL_> Ok... The medallion is already done.
<[FMF]Agrajag> anyway. DU will get an artist to fix those things.
<[FMF]Agrajag> something that resembles the existing posters and grafitti in fallout
<DarkUnderlord> What do we want poste-wise?
<[FMF]Agrajag> maybe like a game commercial?
<[FMF]Agrajag> "soon in a store near you"
<[FMF]Agrajag> ... maybe?
<JL_> This is an in-game poster, displayed on one of the walls?
<Stevie_D> mebbe a billboard somewhere with an MR advert in dialogue
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah. it will be rather tiny
<JL_> You'd never see that text, then.
An advertising billboard/end-of-demo splash-screen
<[FMF]Agrajag> haha, maybe a billboard with fmf/mr asking for recruits
<Stevie_D> lol!
<Stevie_D> of course, for the demo
<Stevie_D> great idea
<[FMF]Agrajag> "available jobs: dialogue writers needed"
<DarkUnderlord> Not in dialogue, in the text display area.
<Stevie_D> okay
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah, a job ad
<JL_> ah.
<[FMF]Agrajag> when you examine it, you get a few things
<[FMF]Agrajag> maybe randomize it even
<[FMF]Agrajag> "experienced seller needed"
<[FMF]Agrajag> "we need more dialogue writers"
<JL_> "
<your text here>"
<DarkUnderlord> Seller?
<[FMF]Agrajag> uh, salesman
<[FMF]Agrajag> so scrap the poster and have a bulletin board somewhere
<[FMF]Agrajag> maybe in a random encounter even
<[FMF]Agrajag> you examine it and it says "this looks rather out-dated"
<Stevie_D> that works for me
<[FMF]Agrajag> and if you use it, you get a dialogue window... you can read through the stuff
<Stevie_D> that works for me
<[FMF]Agrajag> like "the apocalypse is coming! bombs falling over houston"
<[FMF]Agrajag> whatever works
<[FMF]Agrajag> and then a spot for job ads
<[FMF]Agrajag> with FMF/MR asking for recruits
<Stevie_D> I like that it should be a random encounter, too
<[FMF]Agrajag> maybe some newslines from duckandcover and/or nma
<Stevie_D> although it should be in CotC in the demo
<DarkUnderlord> Yeah, in the demo
<Stevie_D> "Man with elastic anus exposes rectum!"
<[FMF]Agrajag> it could be something small to spice up an existing random encounter
<DarkUnderlord> Not in the full game I don't think. We won't need it by then
<Stevie_D> "Girl showers own face with faeces!"
<[FMF]Agrajag> I don't think we should include it in the demo
<DarkUnderlord> End game slide? Join. Die. Join. Die.?
<[FMF]Agrajag> keep it at a small MR grafitti in cotc, in the demo
<DarkUnderlord> We need to use the demo to askn for scripters and stuff. Like totally.
<Stevie_D> okay
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah, could have just one single end game slide for the demo
<[FMF]Agrajag> asking for recruits
<Stevie_D> gotcha
<[FMF]Agrajag> "your country needs YOU!"
<Stevie_D> I need to sign off in 25 mins, folks
<JL_> I should go now...
Future chats
<DarkUnderlord> Futere chats?
<[FMF]Agrajag> uh, too bad Cassidy left already
<DarkUnderlord> Fuck 'im and his kind.
<[FMF]Agrajag> it's been suggested that we have a cycling schedule
<[FMF]Agrajag> so that maybe the next chat is 4 hours later, or something
<[FMF]Agrajag> and the chat after that is even later, and so on
<DarkUnderlord> Weekly or fortnightly?
<Stevie_D> fornightly, I reckon
<[FMF]Agrajag> so that everybody have a chance to show up
<Stevie_D> back into the old swing of things
<JL_> I'm unlikely to be able to participate in anything this late/early again.
<Stevie_D> I think regular chats are vital
<DarkUnderlord> Official chat every two weeks with the other ones as per usual in between.
<DarkUnderlord> I like that idea.
<[FMF]Agrajag> my work schedule is a bit screwed
<Stevie_D> have we covered all the topics?
<DarkUnderlord> Yes and no...
<[FMF]Agrajag> so I can probably not make a weekend chat every two weeks like I used to
<DarkUnderlord> The SM's are left but as per our decision earlier tonight to focus on only CotC for now, they're moot at this point.
<Stevie_D> okay
<Stevie_D> how many hours a week are you doing now, Ag?
<[FMF]Agrajag> people should show up more often in the channel any way
<Stevie_D> work wise, I mean
<[FMF]Agrajag> I don't know, it sort of depends... last week was... uh, about 60 hours :/
<Stevie_D> jeez
<Stevie_D> that's oscene
<[FMF]Agrajag> yes
<Stevie_D> obscene
<DarkUnderlord> What are you doing? Slave coal mining?
<[FMF]Agrajag> something like that
<DarkUnderlord> Oh wait, that'd be 120 hours a week.
<DarkUnderlord> Okay, so add 4 hours after every chat and that's the time for the next one?
<[FMF]Agrajag> I'm working 12 hours a day... but usually not for 5 days a week
<Stevie_D> that's five 12-hour shifts?
<Stevie_D> sounds good, DU
<[FMF]Agrajag> so my weekends are screwed up. sometimes I work on saturday/sunday, and I'm free on regular weekdays. sometimes it's like this week, I'm free on the weekend
<[FMF]Agrajag> last week I worked 5 12 hour shifts, yes
<Stevie_D> I can see how that could be a problem for the chats
<DarkUnderlord> I can't.
<Stevie_D> jeez, dude, couldn't you have got a 9-5? ;)
<[FMF]Agrajag> :(
<DarkUnderlord> Clearly, Agrajag just needs to quit.
<[FMF]Agrajag> yeah
<Stevie_D> clearly
<Stevie_D> tell your boss to stick his gay job
<DarkUnderlord> Or we schedule them in his lunch hour.
<[FMF]Agrajag> heh
<[FMF]Agrajag> I'll be here when I can
<[FMF]Agrajag> otherwise I suppose you'll just have to manage without me
<DarkUnderlord> We won't.
<DarkUnderlord> As evidenced by the past 2 months.
<[FMF]Agrajag> you should get in the channel more often though, so we can have the spontaneous chats
<DarkUnderlord> Yeah, I should.
Teh goodbye
<Stevie_D> right, if we're slowly meandering towards the end of the chat, anyone mind if I call it a day?
<[FMF]Agrajag> not really
<Stevie_D> I'll wiki this one later, btw
<[FMF]Agrajag> okay, cool
<JL_> Night stevie.
<Stevie_D> unless someone else wants to
<[FMF]Agrajag> uh, good day... :)
<Stevie_D> okay, I'll do it
<Stevie_D> yeah, morning in the UK, folks
<DarkUnderlord> Seeya
<Stevie_D> so a good morning I'll bid you all
- Disconnected
Session Close: Sun Jun 18 10:42:39 2006
