IRC Log 24
From Fan Made Fallout Development Wiki
... and we begin
Session Start: Sat Feb 25 18:49:27 2006
Session Ident: #FanMadeFallout
[18:49] * Now talking in #FanMadeFallout
[18:49] * Topic is 'Fan Made Fallout :: The Last Bastion of Hope�'
[18:49] * Set by Gigenet.IL.US.GameSurge.net on Sat Feb 04 12:26:46
[18:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +o DarkUnderlord
[18:49] <ChanServ> [DarkUnderlord] Ask ye a question and an answer ye shall receive.
[19:19] <Agrajag> good morning everyone
[19:19] * Agrajag looks around
[19:19] <Agrajag> umm.. the chat is today, isn't it?
[19:20] <DarkUnderlord> Yup
[19:20] <DarkUnderlord> In about 8 minutes...
[19:20] <Agrajag> cool
[19:20] <Agrajag> hope somebody else makes it
[19:21] <Agrajag> in the mean time, why don't you have a look at Fetzer's dialogue and determine if the Addams reference should be removed or not
[19:22] * DjUnique (~timo.pitk@213.130.245.240) has joined #FanMadeFallout
[19:22] * ChanServ sets mode: +o DjUnique
[19:22] <Agrajag> hi DjUnique
[19:22] <DjUnique> hi
[19:28] <DarkUnderlord> Hey
[19:28] <DarkUnderlord> WHat time is it for you Agrajag?
[19:28] <Agrajag> 10 am
[19:28] <DarkUnderlord> Saturday?
[19:28] <Agrajag> yes
[19:29] <DarkUnderlord> 7:30 pm Saturday for me.
[19:29] <Agrajag> okay
[19:29] <DarkUnderlord> I guess it's just a bad time for everyone else...
[19:29] <Agrajag> heh
[19:29] <Agrajag> it should be 9am for Stevie
[19:29] <DarkUnderlord> That's what I thought. Probably depends on what he's doing though.
[19:30] <Agrajag> don't quite remember what time difference it is for CT and Sebastian...
[19:30] <Agrajag> yeah, probably
[19:31] <DarkUnderlord> Thing is, I don't get the reference.
[19:31] <DarkUnderlord> I mean, there's a difference between calling someone "Fester" and letting a player go "AHAHA ADDAMS AMILY HAHA" and "Why am I calling this guy Fester? His name's Fetzer...?"
[19:31] * Zihuatanejo (Zihuatanej@wh245d.halls.manchester.ac.uk) has joined #FanMadeFallout
[19:32] <DarkUnderlord> Hey Zihuatanejo
[19:32] <Zihuatanejo> hi
[19:32] <DarkUnderlord> !addmaster Zihuatanejo
[19:32] -ChanServ- Zihuatanejo must first authenticate with �AuthServ�.
[19:32] <DarkUnderlord> :(
[19:32] <Zihuatanejo> what should that let me do?
[19:33] <DarkUnderlord> I just !addmaster all team members.
[19:33] <DarkUnderlord> We need to have someone of master level or above in here every 10 days or we lose the channel (not that it's hard to re-register if that happens).
[19:34] <DarkUnderlord> But being a master means if you're the only one in here one day, you could boot someone out.
[19:34] <DarkUnderlord> Mostly I just like to share the love around though.
[19:34] <Zihuatanejo> ha
[19:34] <Agrajag> DarkUnderlord: to be honest, I didn't get it myself... I didn't really care about it, either... Well, it's your call
[19:34] <DarkUnderlord> We'll be talking about all references at the chat.
[19:35] <Agrajag> ah yeah, true that
[19:35] <DarkUnderlord> I figure we'll start and as has happened in the past, in about an hour, another 2 people will join.
[19:35] <Agrajag> oh, and hi Zihuatanejo
[19:35] <Zihuatanejo> hey
On the Agenda
[19:35] <DarkUnderlord> So, welcome (all three of you) to our 24th O-fficial FMF Chat.
[19:35] <DarkUnderlord> On the agenda today:
[19:36] <DarkUnderlord> 1. City on the Coast - Are we done now?
[19:36] <DarkUnderlord> 2. Project Credits - What's fair, what's not fair and how much detail do we really need?
[19:36] <DarkUnderlord> 3. Members to boot (Tosho, RasterOps, Cassidy?).
[19:36] <DarkUnderlord> 4. td.studios - Gamma Group report.
[19:36] <DarkUnderlord> 5. Should we not have any more cripplingly unfunny, totally unnecessary, totally out of place and distracting pop culture references in FMF?
[19:36] * Stevie_D (BrassEye00@80-42-225-20.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #FanMadeFallout
[19:36] <DarkUnderlord> 6. Should we weed out most, if not all, the pop culture references that have been put into FMF so far, particularly the ones that have all the humour and subtlety of a lump mallet and which make a mockery of all the hours of work that have otherwise been put into the mod?
[19:36] <DarkUnderlord> 7. Where have all the important females gone? Lack of significant female NPCs in FMF. Is a sex-change in order for some of our males?
[19:36] <DarkUnderlord> 8. Lone Star, 5 weeks to go...
[19:36] <DarkUnderlord> 9. Lone Star "Mr Big".
[19:36] <DarkUnderlord> 10. Anything else I've neglected to mention that we should probably talk about.
[19:36] <Stevie_D> morning all
[19:36] <DarkUnderlord> See, what did I say?
[19:36] <DarkUnderlord> Hey Stevie
[19:36] <Zihuatanejo> morning
[19:36] <Stevie_D> hi, DU
City on the Coast
[19:36] <DarkUnderlord> So, first up: City on the Coast. Something we can do as Agrajag is here.
[19:36] <Agrajag> heya Stevie_D
[19:37] <DarkUnderlord> Beyond waiting ever so patiently for me to finish up that God damned Daisy quest, is there anything else?
[19:37] <Agrajag> hmm..
[19:37] <Stevie_D> hey up AG
Wiki-ing NPCs
[19:37] <Agrajag> well, I don't know if I should just wiki every NPC that I write up right away
[19:37] <Agrajag> or if I should wait for somebody to give it the official cow of approval or something
[19:38] <DarkUnderlord> I've had a quick look at a few of those.
[19:38] <Agrajag> also, I have some plans regarding the rat bible and the trippy maps, but I'll need some help with them, preferably
[19:38] <DarkUnderlord> Most of them (EG: the Hogg's) are mostly just repeats of what's in the quest info with maybe a bit more.
[19:38] <DarkUnderlord> I'm pretty fine with them.
[19:38] <Agrajag> yeah. if I can copy something somebody else (or myself) already wrote, I do :)
[19:39] <DarkUnderlord> True. No point re-hashing the same info again and again.
[19:39] <Agrajag> did enough of that in school
[19:39] <DarkUnderlord> Plus it's a complete waste of time. :P
[19:39] <Agrajag> :)
[19:40] <DarkUnderlord> Nothing major outstanding beyond the people involved in Daisy's quest then?
[19:40] <DarkUnderlord> How's the dialogue coming?
[19:40] <Agrajag> alright, so what should I make of this? I should wait for you to approve things, but I have to ask you all the time, because you don't post in the forum?
[19:40] <Stevie_D> quite a lot of work going on there, it seems
[19:41] <Agrajag> yeah, the dialogue drones are quite active, I must say
[19:41] <Agrajag> especially the new ones
[19:41] <Stevie_D> rakalen, Vesthrix... errr...
[19:41] <DarkUnderlord> Well, I have a bad habit of looking at threads that are okay and closing them...
[19:41] <Stevie_D> Rhombus is working
[19:41] <DarkUnderlord> ... without actually posting anything.
[19:41] <Zihuatanejo> no_face
[19:41] <Stevie_D> oh yeah
[19:41] <Stevie_D> you too, Z, innit?
[19:41] <Agrajag> don't forget Zealot Kho
[19:42] <Zihuatanejo> saul's coming along slower than i'd like
[19:42] <Zihuatanejo> he's got a strange conversational style that's hard to write
[19:42] <Stevie_D> shit, that's the most active Beta members we've had in forever
[19:42] <Stevie_D> what's your secret, Ag? :(
[19:42] <DarkUnderlord> In some cases it's not too clear if you are waiting for me because there's already someone who's claimed it by the time I read it and begun wokr on it.
[19:42] <Agrajag> Bazola is now officially Idle though
[19:42] <Agrajag> lol Stevie_D ;)
[19:42] <DarkUnderlord> Kinf od one of those situations where if I DIDN'T approve it, we'd have some problems.
[19:43] <Stevie_D> that's starting to be the case in Lone Star, now, DU, although we'll come to that in a bit
[19:43] <Agrajag> yeah, I know... generally though, I don't expect there to be any major problems with the write ups
[19:43] <Agrajag> it's more if you notice that something's missing, or if I got something wrong (as with the Quinn character, which you didn't notice anyway)
[19:43] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, I don't think you should wait for me. NPCs in this instance really are just rehashes of the quest info (which I have approved in most cases).
[19:44] <Agrajag> alright. I'll just wiki them at once then
[19:44] <Agrajag> any minor details may be added later anyway
[19:44] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, there's that too. Me not noticing things until later. Usually minor, insignificant details which we end up spending hours on anyway.
[19:45] <DarkUnderlord> If there ever is anything I notice which I think is "wrong", I'll let you know and we can work it out then.
[19:45] <Agrajag> there's not so many unclaimed NPCs left, that's mainly the problem. Otherwise it could take forever (within reason) before I get feedback on it, but the dialogue writers crave fresh NPCs all the time
[19:45] <DarkUnderlord> For the most part, I'm happy to let you get things to a point where you're satisfied with them.
[19:45] <Agrajag> cool
[19:45] <DarkUnderlord> NPCs etc... Wiki them and go from there. You're generally all right 95% of the time.
[19:46] <Agrajag> okay, will do
[19:46] <DarkUnderlord> Come prototype I'll be looking more closely and I think that's going to be a major revision / review "what else does this NPC need to say" type situation.
[19:46] <Agrajag> I'm thinking of arranging a chat or something specifically for the Rat Bible and maybe also the trippy maps
[19:46] <Agrajag> those are two things that have been left untouched for way too long
Outstanding CotC Issues
[19:46] <DarkUnderlord> So CotC's major issues are: 1. Daisy
[19:47] <DarkUnderlord> 2. Rat Bible
[19:47] <DarkUnderlord> 3. Tripppy Maps
[19:47] <DarkUnderlord> 4. Lack of NPCs for writers to start on
[19:47] <Agrajag> pretty much. apart from the fact that there's still about a dozen NPCs that needs to be written up
[19:47] <Agrajag> as soon as the Daisy quest is done though, we should have about 3 or 4 "free ones"
[19:47] <DarkUnderlord> 1 I will get too. Hopefully sooner rather than later. I just need to finish those last bits off.
[19:48] <Agrajag> the rat bible, I'd like to gather the people who wants anything to do with it
[19:48] <DarkUnderlord> The bible we'll work on, as with trippy maps. 4 will fix itself when Daisy is done. Beyond that... We'll need to look at who else the writers work on (Vault 31 NPCs etc..) or whether we make another "Alpha-esque" Battle Group.
[19:48] <Agrajag> and then get over with it. so work can start on it
[19:49] <Agrajag> if that doesn't happen soon, I could just write it myself, but that doesn't feel quite right. probably won't be very good, either
[19:49] <Agrajag> the trippy maps I think would be pretty fun to brainstorm ideas for
[19:49] <DarkUnderlord> Rutger ever write anything?
[19:50] <DarkUnderlord> I know Zealot wrote some stuff.
[19:50] <DarkUnderlord> As in, where is the "Rat Bible" thread?
[19:50] <Agrajag> especially if we could have a mapper/scripter here as well, so we know how many "special effects" we may be able to pull off
[19:50] <Agrajag> I didn't actually see anything that Rutger wrote
[19:51] <Agrajag> though I leave a reservation for having a bad memory
[19:51] <Agrajag> I dare say it wasn't anything really thorough though. which means that we still need to put work in it
[19:51] <Stevie_D> me neither. His contribution to Alpha Group leaves a lot to be desired, to say the least
[19:51] <DarkUnderlord> Speaking of Rutger...
Do not abuse the FTP for personal purposes
[19:52] <DarkUnderlord> Agrajag... Remember how I said I got an e-mail saying the server was full and I thought there was 500 mb free?
[19:52] <DarkUnderlord> Turns out Rutger was uploading things..
[19:52] <Stevie_D> !
[19:52] <Agrajag> Zealot basically wrote a lot of useless threads, a pair of weeks ago. Not that they were bad ideas, they just didn't fit with anything else that we have in CotC
[19:52] <DarkUnderlord> Downloading them elsewhere then deleting them.
[19:52] <Agrajag> abusing the system, eh?
[19:52] <DarkUnderlord> Yes, I PM'd him about it. Saying it's not a good idea. Haven't heard anything since.
[19:53] <Agrajag> okay...
[19:53] <DarkUnderlord> I just thought I'd mention that in the chat. It'll look good in the log.
[19:53] <Stevie_D> lol :D
[19:53] <DarkUnderlord> NICE FRIENDLY REMINDER TO PEOPLE NOT TO ABUSE THE FTP HUH?
[19:53] <Agrajag> haha
[19:54] <DarkUnderlord> As I've said, avatars or a graphic signature are fine. 500 mbs of stuff you want to upload for personal use is not okay.
[19:54] <Stevie_D> 500Mbs? What was it, porn epics?
[19:54] <DarkUnderlord> Fallout_Part1_a.zip
[19:54] <Agrajag> anyway, Zealot seems to be having a lot of energy. his writing is also quite good, and he's got that special "style" of writing which I can't really put my finger on, but which is ideal for the rat bible, imo
[19:54] <DarkUnderlord> Fallout_Part2.zip
[19:55] <DarkUnderlord> Fallout_Part3.zip and so on...
[19:55] <Stevie_D> oddness
[19:55] <Zihuatanejo> definitely agra
[19:55] <Agrajag> so I'd like to get his ass over here sometime and talk things through so we can get it over with
[19:55] <Zihuatanejo> if rutger ends up not doing it
[19:55] <Zihuatanejo> zealot would be good for the bible
[19:55] <Agrajag> yeah
[19:55] <Stevie_D> agreed
City on the Coast (again)
Rat Bible Chat
[19:55] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, so the Rat Bible Chat. Presumably you'll want me if you can.
[19:55] <Stevie_D> quirky style
[19:55] <DarkUnderlord> Agrajag.
[19:55] <DarkUnderlord> Z?
[19:55] <Stevie_D> in a good way
[19:56] <DarkUnderlord> ... Temaperacl for mapping / scripting questions.
[19:56] <Agrajag> yeah, that would be good DarkUnderlord
[19:56] <Zihuatanejo> if i can, depending on time
[19:56] <Agrajag> and pretty much anybody who is good at tossing ideas around, for the trippy maps
[19:56] <DarkUnderlord> ... and maybe Rutger and anyone else who can make it if they can at the time.
[19:57] <Agrajag> yeah
[19:57] <DarkUnderlord> All right. Set it for next week?
[19:57] <Agrajag> I'd actually prefer it if Rutger could get here too, just to avoid any double work issues to occur
[19:57] <DarkUnderlord> Some time on a Saturday / Sunday of that weekend.
[19:57] <Zihuatanejo> that should be fine
[19:58] <Agrajag> we've had them before, and they're never very nice. you tell somebody to do something, he doesn't show anything and the others do something else instead. then you get teh chaos :(
[19:58] <DarkUnderlord> We'll talk to the people we want at the chat and try and work a good time for them out.
[19:58] <Agrajag> okay
[19:58] <DarkUnderlord> teh chaos is teh fun!
[19:58] <Agrajag> hehe
CotC Re-Cap
[19:58] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, so City on the Coast re-cap
[19:58] <DarkUnderlord> 1. DU is doing Daisy
[19:58] <DarkUnderlord> ... and will finish ASAP
[19:59] <Agrajag> ... hopefully
[19:59] <DarkUnderlord> 2. We'll schedule a Rat Bible Chat and work it out.
[19:59] <DarkUnderlord> ... both the chat time and the rat bible itself at the chat
[19:59] <DarkUnderlord> ... Which Zealot will probably write if he can.
[19:59] <DarkUnderlord> 3. At the same chat, we'll throw some trippy map ideas around.
[20:00] <DarkUnderlord> (May be worth having a look over some of the previous logs for any old trippy map ideas)
[20:00] <Agrajag> yeah
[20:00] <DarkUnderlord> 4. CotC has enough NPCs for now. We'll worry about what to do next if we run out of them for people to work on.
[20:00] <Agrajag> the basic premise of the trippy maps are written up
[20:00] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, so it's just detail for the trippy maps then?
[20:00] <DarkUnderlord> Anything I've missed for CotC?
[20:01] <Agrajag> so those who attend may want to read that, just so everybody knows what we have so far. no real ideas have been presented apart from that writeup, unless I'm mistaken
[20:01] <Agrajag> nope, that looks good
[20:01] <DarkUnderlord> All right, let's move on.
Project Credits
The current proposal
[20:01] <DarkUnderlord> 2. Project Credits - What's fair, what's not fair and how much detail do we really need?
[20:02] <Agrajag> yeah... this one...
[20:02] <Stevie_D> whose idea was that originally?
[20:02] <Stevie_D> not that it matters - just asking out of curiosity
[20:02] <DarkUnderlord> Agrajag said he wanted credits and wanted something that was fair.
[20:02] <Agrajag> I don't know about anybody else, but I tried to write some credits the way we've said it's going to be now
[20:02] <Stevie_D> cool
[20:02] <Agrajag> and yeah, I'd personally like things to be fair. not sure what price I'm ready to pay for it though
[20:02] <DarkUnderlord> I mean, I've always wanted credits too but I never thought about it.
[20:03] <Stevie_D> teh link: http://devwiki.fanmadefallout.com/index.php/Credits
[20:03] <Agrajag> a list of all members seems too vague, given that some members never did anything at all to contribute
[20:03] <DarkUnderlord> Who killed Daisy?
[20:03] <DarkUnderlord> * Idea conceived by: DarkUnderlord, Sebastian of the Wastes
[20:03] <DarkUnderlord> * Detail work done by: DarkUnderlord, Sebastian of the Wastes
[20:03] <DarkUnderlord> * With assistance from: Agrajag
[20:03] <DarkUnderlord> * Written up by: DarkUnderlord, Sebastian of the Wastes
[20:03] <DarkUnderlord> * Special thanks to: my cat, for soothing when things went overboard
[20:03] <DarkUnderlord> ... but that's too much?
Split them into categories
[20:03] <Zihuatanejo> i thought that, in a credit scroll at the end, you could have all the members who contributed
[20:03] <Zihuatanejo> just split them up into categories
[20:04] <Agrajag> you know.. just try to do it for one of the older quests, and you'll see what I mean
[20:04] <Zihuatanejo> say 10+ dialogues: core dialogue
[20:04] <Zihuatanejo> 5+ dialogues: dialogue
[20:04] <Zihuatanejo> the rest: additional dialogue
[20:04] <Stevie_D> the super-detailed credits can always be added to the game in a .doc file or summat
[20:04] <Stevie_D> good thinking, Z
[20:04] <Agrajag> I don't think we should have a super-detailed credits list at all. I think we should lock the forums and attach it to the dev wiki
[20:04] <DarkUnderlord> I think 'core' is maybe unfair for those who write less than a handful of REALLY important NPCs.
[20:04] <Agrajag> and everybody can see for themselves
[20:05] <Zihuatanejo> but for me, it's not a huge deal
[20:05] <DarkUnderlord> ... but I get what you mean.
[20:05] <Zihuatanejo> also, yeah that's true DU
Agrajag's Level System
[20:05] <Agrajag> I've developed this "level" system for dialogue writing
[20:05] <Stevie_D> so long as my name comes up in lights at some point, I'm pretty cool with it, too
[20:05] <Agrajag> you gain one level for each star of difficulty you finish off
[20:05] <Agrajag> so if you write Alexander, which is a five star job (and you finish it), you get 5 levels
[20:05] <DarkUnderlord> So if someone finishes a level 3 and a level 2, they're a "5 level"?
[20:05] <Agrajag> if you write Tenskwatawa, you get one level
[20:06] <Agrajag> uh, yeah
[20:06] <Zihuatanejo> dammit
[20:06] <Agrajag> ;)
[20:06] <Zihuatanejo> should've picked a higher-grade one!
[20:06] <Stevie_D> I should have thought that your skill level is set by the hardest character you've ever written
[20:06] <Agrajag> not to worry Zihuatanejo, you're already level 13
[20:06] <DarkUnderlord> It's cumulative though.
[20:06] <Zihuatanejo> w00t
[20:06] <DarkUnderlord> Someone who writes 5 level 2 scripts is a "level 10"
[20:06] <Stevie_D> cumulative? Then bow before my awesome star rating
[20:06] <DarkUnderlord> SOmeone who writes 2 of the hardest dialogues is also a "level 10"
[20:07] <Agrajag> Zihuatanejo wrote a lot of one level characters. still, it's obvious from his "level" that he's written a lot more than.. well... anybody else that I've been monitoring
[20:07] <DarkUnderlord> So the list will display all the writers by level? Or alphabetically with their level / rating in brackets afterward?
[20:08] <Agrajag> it's of course a silly measurement in many respects... I mean, the difficulty-level can be argued not to be valid in all cases
[20:08] <DarkUnderlord> EG: Level 30+ writers: LIST
[20:08] <DarkUnderlord> VS Zihuatanejo (Level 35)
[20:08] <Agrajag> and also, is it really more work to write 5 one star job, compared to 1 five star?
[20:08] <Stevie_D> I see. So list validity is down to the number of stars completed
[20:08] <Zihuatanejo> yeah, i don't think 'level' should be a explicit thing in the credits
[20:08] <Stevie_D> @ Ag: I think it is
[20:08] <Zihuatanejo> could lead to dialogue writers rushing it
[20:09] <Agrajag> yeah.. that's the reason I never posted the idea in the first place
[20:09] <Zihuatanejo> and especially in CotC at the moment, cause of the demo, we need the dialogue to be super-quality
[20:09] <Agrajag> just kept it in my list for teh fun
[20:09] <Stevie_D> 5 star chrs often have sections which need serious skill, but they also have lots and lots of stuff that is fairly easy to write
The problem
[20:09] <DarkUnderlord> ... but just saying "Dialogue Writers" (INSERT LIST OF EVERYONE WHO EVER FINISHED A DIALOGUE) is not enough?
[20:09] <Agrajag> Stevie_D: yeah...
[20:09] <Zihuatanejo> yeah, that wouldn't really be fair
[20:09] <Stevie_D> Dr. Oswald, for example, other than the euthanasia stuff (twitch, twitch), was pretty straight forward
[20:10] <Agrajag> I usually add in how many quests and stuff the NPC is connected to when I determine how difficult they are to write... if they need to say a lot of things, then it's a lot of cases to take care of, and it gets messy, and it's harder
[20:10] <Agrajag> even though none of them really require a lot of skill to write
[20:10] <DarkUnderlord> There are two issues here.
[20:10] <Agrajag> some characters don't need to say a lot, but they will be super hard to write anyway. take Quinn, for example of that
[20:10] <DarkUnderlord> 1. Giving credit where credit is due
[20:10] <DarkUnderlord> 2. WHat credits appear in the game vs what creidts can people find out elsewhere (IE: the forums)
[20:11] <Agrajag> I think the forums should become public in any case
[20:11] <DarkUnderlord> The plan is to lock the forums and open them for public reading once all is done.
[20:11] <Agrajag> simply because it's the best master credits we'll ever get, all categories
[20:11] <Stevie_D> cool
[20:11] <Agrajag> if you define best to be the most extensive one
[20:11] <Stevie_D> leave the public forums postable?
Side-discussion about Forums we'll need
[20:11] <DarkUnderlord> It shows what we've been up to and will help anyone else who has idea about "Hey, wouldn't a Fan Made RPG be cool?"
[20:11] <Agrajag> no, not postable
[20:11] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, public forums would be postable.
[20:12] <Agrajag> oh, public
[20:12] <DarkUnderlord> Or might go into an archive forums and a new 'public forums' created.
[20:12] <Stevie_D> okay
[20:12] <Agrajag> it's kinda fun to read the age old threads...
[20:12] <Stevie_D> might be an idea to have a bug reporting forum, too, for obvious reasons
[20:12] <DarkUnderlord> Hell, even a giant master category "FMF - Archive"
[20:12] <Stevie_D> but that's years down the line
[20:13] <Agrajag> but it's anything but fun and easy to go through all the material just to find out "anybody who farted in the general direction of quest x"
[20:13] <Zihuatanejo> yeah, stevie, for the demo we could have a bug forum, a crits forum, discussion?
[20:13] <DarkUnderlord> At some point, someone (be it me or a few other people whowant to reminisce) would make the "Master Credits List"
[20:13] <Stevie_D> I reckon
[20:13] <DarkUnderlord> .. but at the end of the game, if we just had "Mappers" List all mappers; "Dialogue" List all writers; would that be so bad?
[20:13] <Stevie_D> people'll use the public forum for that anyway, so I guess it makes sense to channel that into a sub-forum
[20:13] <DarkUnderlord> If people knew that, if yoo wanted, you could go to the forums / devwiki for the master lst?
[20:14] <Agrajag> I tried to find out who came up with the idea for quinn's nemesis. I gave up after about 20 minutes
[20:14] <DarkUnderlord> Even a note at the end: Go here (URL) for detailed credits?
[20:14] <Stevie_D> not sure I like the idea of getting the same degree of credit as some gippler who posted one dialogue then left
Back to the categories idea
[20:14] <Zihuatanejo> honestly, DU, i think the final credit scroll should at least be split up a bit
[20:14] <Agrajag> I like that, too
[20:14] <DarkUnderlord> How about a list ranked by rating but without the rating being stated.
[20:14] <Zihuatanejo> some people will work a ridiculous amount
[20:15] <Agrajag> if we can split it up in a way which is not too complicated, that oughta do it
[20:15] <DarkUnderlord> With gaps between every major group.
[20:15] <Agrajag> we could have one section of members called "good for nothing" or something, where people like DODGER!! go
[20:15] <Stevie_D> lol
[20:15] <DarkUnderlord> Actuall, going back, I like Z's "Dialogue", "Additional Dialogue", "Assisted Dialogue", "Somethingoranother Dialogue"
[20:15] <Agrajag> yeah, me too
[20:15] <Zihuatanejo> just a matter of getting the semantics right
[20:15] <Stevie_D> yeah, seemed like the most reasonable comprimise
[20:16] <Zihuatanejo> so no-one gets offended
[20:16] <DarkUnderlord> "Major Mapping", "Additional Mapping", "Mapping Assistance"
[20:16] <Agrajag> could use the level idea as a general guideline for what category you get
[20:16] <Zihuatanejo> good idea
[20:16] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah.
[20:16] <Stevie_D> yep - the level idea's good, just so long as we're dilligent about keeping track
[20:16] <DarkUnderlord> I mean, we'll "know" intuitively anyway, but that'll help.
[20:17] <Stevie_D> that's true, DU
[20:17] <Agrajag> Stevie_D: keeping track of that is quite easy though. you just look who wrote what dialogue, and add the stars together :)
[20:17] <DarkUnderlord> I mean Stevie for example. Has he ever written anything? I don't think so. So he goes at the bottom.
[20:17] <Agrajag> lol
[20:17] <DarkUnderlord> ;)
[20:17] <Stevie_D> I really ought to make a start :(
[20:18] <Stevie_D> I can't get teh editor to work?
[20:18] <Stevie_D> what is an FTP?
[20:18] <DarkUnderlord> You mean the mapper? Aren't you a mapper? Isn't that why we hired you?
[20:18] <Stevie_D> oh yeah, shit
Credits Decision
[20:18] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, so to re-cap.
[20:18] <Agrajag> I now have about 3 different people mailing me dialogues at a steady pace, just because they can't get the ftp to work
[20:18] <Agrajag> it works, but it makes you wonder how hard it could be... I mean, come on
[20:19] <DarkUnderlord> Credits in the game will scroll by with people under various categories which are associated with their "ability" or the amount of work they did.
[20:19] <DjUnique> probably most of those dialogues won't load because of the bugs in the dialogue tool save routine and that's entirely my fault
[20:19] <Stevie_D> the FTP is piss easy to use
[20:19] <Stevie_D> is there a post somewhere where there's an officially endorsed FTP program?
[20:19] <DarkUnderlord> Categories such as "Dialogue", "Additional Dialogue", "Assisted Dialogue"
[20:19] <Agrajag> DjUnique: am I right to assume that you're not allowed to have spaces in the node names?
[20:19] <DarkUnderlord> Like-wise with mapping, art and so on.
FTP, node names and Politics
[20:19] <Stevie_D> I'm an AceFTP man, myself
[20:20] <DjUnique> Agrajag, yes
[20:20] <Agrajag> I'm a ws_ftp illegal cracked pirated downloaded version, and I will burn in hell for 2011 years for using it
[20:20] <DarkUnderlord> If anyone feels the urge though, they can edit the Master Credits list in the wiki just to give a detailed "who's responsible for what, exactly" listing. THis is not a priority list though and something people will work on only when they feel the urge.
[20:20] <Stevie_D> lol Ag :D
[20:20] <DarkUnderlord> Use Filezilla
[20:21] <DarkUnderlord> http://filezilla.sourceforge.net/
[20:21] <Agrajag> DjUnique: k, just checking... I'll make sure the dialogue writers know it, too :)
[20:21] <DarkUnderlord> Everyone happy with the credits outcome?
[20:21] <Stevie_D> doesn't the editor mention it if you try to use spaces in node names?
[20:21] <Agrajag> yeah, it's better
[20:21] <Zihuatanejo> yep, sounds fine
[20:22] <Stevie_D> sure thing, DU
[20:22] <Agrajag> Stevie_D: I don't think so
[20:22] <Stevie_D> oh right. Good job I assumed at the beginning that spaces were teh bad
[20:22] <DarkUnderlord> FTP wouldn't be a problem if I got off my arse and installed that attachments mod.
[20:22] <Agrajag> hehe
[20:22] <Stevie_D> what's the deal with the state elections, DU?
[20:22] <Agrajag> they are bad news if you try to have them in any scripts though
[20:22] <Stevie_D> are you heavily involved, or summat?
[20:23] <DarkUnderlord> Well, I spent this afternoon out putting posters up.
[20:23] <Stevie_D> Australian Nazi Party?
[20:23] <Agrajag> haha
[20:23] <DarkUnderlord> Last weekend I was out letterboxing with cheap photcopied crud.
[20:23] <DarkUnderlord> Heh. Not quite/
[20:23] <Stevie_D> not the general elections, though
[20:24] <Agrajag> so you're into politics?
[20:24] <DarkUnderlord> General elections? It's the O-fficial South Australian State Government Elections.
[20:24] <DjUnique> to my knowledge, teh editor (version 0.26.0) DOES notify of bad node names
[20:24] <Stevie_D> gotcha :|
[20:25] <DjUnique> I'll have to add a validation routine to the dialogue loading as well
[20:25] <DjUnique> right now it only happens when edeitin
[20:25] <DjUnique> editing nodes
[20:25] <Stevie_D> you know, I doubt you'll be able to commit much time to FMF if you become president, too (PRime Minister?)
[20:25] <DarkUnderlord> Agrajag: Yeah. Been involved in politics for... 4 years now? Just over.
[20:25] <DarkUnderlord> PM's about 20 years off yet and no, I'm not actually running as a candidate.
[20:25] <DarkUnderlord> Helping out our candidate for Ashford.
[20:26] <Stevie_D> brb
Members to boot
[20:26] <DarkUnderlord> Moving on, 3. Members to boot (Tosho, RasterOps, Cassidy?).
[20:26] <Agrajag> I think we should give Cassidy more time
[20:27] <DarkUnderlord> We have 37 members now.
[20:27] <DarkUnderlord> Tosho has been away the longest.
[20:28] <Agrajag> I have given up hope on Tosho
[20:28] <Agrajag> he haven't even read the PM I sent him a month ago
[20:28] <DarkUnderlord> ... at 36 days. Followed by PunkMonk (34), Cassidy (29), skipping the sound guys, CrimsonMerc (21), Bazola (18)
[20:28] <DarkUnderlord> Skipping our movie guy, RasterOps (10)
[20:28] <DarkUnderlord> ... and Mr. Mouflon at 7 days! BOOT BOOT!
[20:29] <Agrajag> hehe
[20:29] <Stevie_D> dunno what happened to Cassidy - he use to be v. active
[20:29] <DarkUnderlord> Any names in there you know about?
[20:29] <DarkUnderlord> "Hey, I spoke to him"
[20:29] <DarkUnderlord> ?
[20:29] <Stevie_D> oh well, they can all re-apply if they want
Cassidy
[20:29] <Agrajag> maybe Cassidy's in jail again? :(
[20:29] <Agrajag> but let me consult my offline-beta-manager now
[20:29] <Stevie_D> !
[20:29] <DarkUnderlord> Cassidy I do want to give more time but after being in gaol and what-not... I'm not sure if he's going to be able to get back into things.
[20:29] <Agrajag> just to get things straight
[20:30] <Agrajag> he wasn't just in gaol though, was he?
[20:30] <DarkUnderlord> I'm always more inclined to wait a month, then boot, then let them back in if they come back (ala Myk-El)
[20:30] * Disconnected
Session Close: Sat Feb 25 20:30:23 2006
Session Start: Sat Feb 25 20:30:29 2006
Session Ident: #FanMadeFallout
[20:30] * Now talking in #FanMadeFallout
[20:30] * Topic is 'Fan Made Fallout :: The Last Bastion of Hope�'
[20:30] * Set by Gigenet.IL.US.GameSurge.net on Sat Feb 04 12:26:46
[20:30] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Underlord
[20:30] <Underlord> !!
[20:30] <Underlord> Stupid IRC Server
[20:30] <Stevie_D> it's not like we make bootees write a completely new application
[20:30] <Underlord> No, no we don't.
[20:31] <Stevie_D> (lol @ bootees)
Tosho
[20:31] <Underlord> I'll e-mail Tosho.
[20:31] <Underlord> He had a good app and seemed really keen.
[20:31] <Underlord> Last thing I want to do is boot him and have him say "but d00d! I was working on it"
[20:31] <Stevie_D> true dat. His enthusiasm ground to a halt half way through re-writing Eleanor
[20:31] <Agrajag> I sent a PM to PunkMonk 2 weeks ago
[20:31] <Underlord> ... and then have him send me the greatest dialogue evar.
[20:31] <Agrajag> it's still unread
[20:32] <Agrajag> according to the rules, he's got one more week until he becomes officially Idle, whereafter action may or may not be taken
[20:32] <Underlord> Okay, we'll give him a week (Boy I'm glad you keep track of that)
[20:32] <Underlord> Cassidy.
[20:33] <Agrajag> Tosho's time have expired long ago though
[20:33] <Underlord> I'll give him until the end of Feb.
[20:33] <Agrajag> so it's your call. I don't think he's even been online for over a month
[20:33] * DarkUnderlord (~darkunder@203-173-21-28.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Ping timeout�)
[20:33] <Stevie_D> 4 days?
[20:33] <Underlord> I'll e-mail Tosho and if he doesn't reply in a week, he's gone.
[20:33] * Underlord is now known as DarkUnderlord
CrimsonMerc
[20:33] <DarkUnderlord> CrimsonMerc?
[20:33] <Agrajag> CrimsonMerc had a car accident some time ago
[20:33] <Stevie_D> shit :(
[20:33] <Stevie_D> bad one?
[20:33] <Agrajag> I think he's genuinly interested in being on the team
[20:33] <Agrajag> yeah, pretty bad I think
[20:33] <Agrajag> it was months ago
[20:33] <Stevie_D> poor bastard
[20:34] <Stevie_D> was that mentioned on the forum? I don't remember it
[20:34] <Agrajag> I've recieved some PM's every once in a while though
[20:34] <Stevie_D> right
[20:34] <Agrajag> he is recovering though, and he still wants to be on the team
[20:34] <Agrajag> and he hopes he can contribute asap. might take a month or two, I don't know
[20:34] <DarkUnderlord> Last I heard from him was Feb 04 when he had a new job and a lot to read...
[20:35] <Agrajag> Stevie_D: I think he did mention it on the forum, actually
[20:35] <Stevie_D> any news from Kruddman, recently, DU?
[20:35] <Agrajag> anyway, I don't know. sounds to me like he wants to be on. not really a problem as long as we don't expect anything from him
[20:35] <Stevie_D> Making the boats for City on the Coast. Is busy with real-life at the moment, need to e-mail him reminder towards end of February.
[20:35] <DarkUnderlord> Nope Stevie but I consider all technical people (art / sound) as "specialists" who I'm nt so worried about.
[20:35] <DarkUnderlord> Mainly because I need to get them in order.
[20:35] <Stevie_D> okay
[20:36] <DarkUnderlord> ... and give them things to do.
[20:36] <Agrajag> heh
[20:36] <DarkUnderlord> We're very lacking in that department. The current person in charge of that isn't doing as bang-up a job as say yourself or Agrajag is.
[20:36] <Agrajag> Bazola is officially pronounced Idle though
[20:36] <DarkUnderlord> I'll e-mail him too...
RasterOps
[20:36] <DarkUnderlord> RasterOps?
[20:36] <Agrajag> I've sent him a PM
[20:36] <Agrajag> he read it, too
[20:36] <Agrajag> no reply yet
[20:37] <DarkUnderlord> RasterOps?
[20:37] <DarkUnderlord> ... or was that to Bazola?
[20:37] <Agrajag> that was to Bazola
[20:37] <DarkUnderlord> Ok
[20:37] <DarkUnderlord> Sorry, CrimsonMerc I'll e-mail too. Inclined to boot.
[20:37] <Agrajag> RasterOps - I recieved a "I'm doing nothing" PM some days ago
[20:37] <DarkUnderlord> Is he assigned anything?
[20:37] <Agrajag> 9 days, to be exact
[20:38] <Agrajag> let me just see what I replied to that...
[20:38] <DarkUnderlord> Oh, anyone having problems storing PMs? I boosted the storage space to 200 messages a year or two ago and haven't had problems with keeping old messages forever myself. Not sure about anyone else.
[20:39] <Agrajag> oh shit, I didn't reply to that :(
[20:39] <DarkUnderlord> Not in your outbox or sentbox?
[20:39] <Agrajag> no...
[20:39] <Stevie_D> I've got PMs from when I first joined - plenty of space
[20:39] <Agrajag> my inbox is 51% full
[20:39] <DarkUnderlord> Mine was 80something% until I cleaned out a complete page 4 of messages.
[20:40] <DarkUnderlord> Now it's only 57%
[20:40] <Agrajag> okay
[20:40] <Agrajag> I can probably clear some crap out of it
[20:40] <Stevie_D> it's more than ample space wise, IMO
[20:40] <Agrajag> I'd like to keep the PMs to the dialogue writers though, so I can keep track of things
[20:40] <Stevie_D> much more than you get with most bulletin boards, at least
[20:40] <Agrajag> anyway... It seems like I screwed up on the RasterOps case
[20:40] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, I usually go back to the last page and delete everything in it after checking them. Usually the 'good stuff' you need is on page 1 or 2.
[20:41] <DarkUnderlord> Anything beyond that and the person concerned is taking too fucking long.
[20:41] <DarkUnderlord> "
[20:41] <DarkUnderlord> To which I answered that he should just keep us updated with his progress. According to the new rules, and all that. He's Idle though, not working with anything. He may or may not show up to do something. Yesterday I got the following:
[20:41] <DarkUnderlord> That's what you told me you said to him.
[20:41] <Agrajag> sorry bout that. anyway, the last thing I said to him was to try and cheer up and pick a NPC
[20:41] <DarkUnderlord> Didn't tell him that in IRC or something?
[20:41] <DarkUnderlord> Sory, that was part one..
[20:42] <Agrajag> yeah, that was a long time ago
[20:42] <Agrajag> meaning it was some weeks ago
[20:42] <DarkUnderlord> That was Monday.
[20:42] <Agrajag> I didn't PM him about the rules last monday
[20:42] <DarkUnderlord> I said I'd sort it during the chat. So that's why you haven't sent him anything.
[20:42] <Agrajag> that I did the 31st of january
[20:43] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, PM him with something for him to do (or however you do that).
[20:43] <Agrajag> oh, yeah, that's right
[20:43] <DarkUnderlord> If he doesn't reply in a week, :jarswim:
[20:43] <Stevie_D> this is Raster, still?
[20:43] <Agrajag> okay, I'll ask him to pick something though
[20:43] <Agrajag> yeah, that's raster
[20:43] <DarkUnderlord> Addendum: If he doesn't pick something and say he'll work on something and BEGIN work within a week...
[20:44] <Stevie_D> crucial addendum
[20:44] <DarkUnderlord> Just in case his reply was "STFU N00b".
[20:44] <Agrajag> lol, not really
Members to Boot Re-Cap
[20:44] <DarkUnderlord> That's everyone then?
[20:44] <DarkUnderlord> No-one in Alpha getting on your nerves Stevie?
[20:44] <DarkUnderlord> No-one left in Beta to boot?
[20:45] <Agrajag> no, I think we're fine
[20:45] <Stevie_D> not nerves, as such
[20:45] <Stevie_D> ol' Rutger isn't contributing much
[20:45] <Agrajag> a couple of them have to act fast in order not to get kicked, but we already talked about those
[20:45] <DarkUnderlord> Just to re-cap, I'll specifically e-mail some of the idlers (whose names I'll get when I go back through the log of this chat), Agrajag will PM RasterOps and next week, we'll have another 5 or so members getting booted if they haven't replied.
Alpha Group Changes
[20:46] <Stevie_D> some of the other contributers not on the Alpha list deserve the spot more
[20:46] <Agrajag> DarkUnderlord: sounds about right. I suck at names too... ;)
[20:46] <DarkUnderlord> I'll side-step into that issue...
[20:46] <DarkUnderlord> Take Rutger off Alpha?
[20:46] <Agrajag> I think we should notify him first
[20:47] <DarkUnderlord> Stevie D, Rutger, Sebastian of the Wastes, Cogitator_Tertius.
[20:47] <DarkUnderlord> Of those 4, Rutger's the only problem?
[20:47] <Stevie_D> well, inactivity doesn't really count as a OMFG problem, but yeah
[20:47] <DarkUnderlord> Problem as in "ideas may not be up to scratch, might be good to get him to do some groundwork in Beta for a while?"
[20:48] <Stevie_D> beta's prolly a good idea, I think
[20:48] <DarkUnderlord> Who do you think "deserves the spot more"?
[20:48] <Stevie_D> Zihuatanejo
[20:49] <Zihuatanejo> sorry, was away from comp
[20:49] <Stevie_D> (yes, I can spell it!)
[20:49] <Agrajag> I'm inclined to agree
[20:49] <DarkUnderlord> We talked about that last chat.
[20:49] <Zihuatanejo> i think that the situation now is working well for me
[20:49] <DarkUnderlord> The response was to have Z keep writing dialogue but contribute more in Alpha...
[20:49] <Agrajag> and I too can spell it. though at IRC I don't have to, just press z and tab
[20:50] <Zihuatanejo> trying to get some dialogues done on beta, and chipping in on alpha occasionally
[20:50] <Stevie_D> that's true - it's not like your name has to be on the Alpha list to be able to contribute
[20:50] <Agrajag> yeah
[20:50] <Stevie_D> yeah - be a shame to take away a quality dialogue writer
[20:50] <Zihuatanejo> its a nice change from hacking away at dialogues all the time
[20:50] <Agrajag> my name's not on the Alpha list either
[20:50] <DarkUnderlord> However, I wouldn't mind taking Zihuatanejo off his dialogue (let him finish whatever he's got going at the moment) and then assign him to Alpha properly.
[20:50] <Zihuatanejo> saul SHOULD be done today
[20:50] <Zihuatanejo> allegedly
[20:50] <Stevie_D> it's like the Alpha list is semi... what's the word... like the queen
[20:51] <DarkUnderlord> How many dialogues are you working on?
[20:51] <Agrajag> haste not, brother
[20:51] <Zihuatanejo> yeah, i know, he's been a pain for the last 2 weeks though
[20:51] <Stevie_D> you know, a title with no real... fuck it
[20:51] <Zihuatanejo> DU: just saul
[20:51] <Stevie_D> I don't know
[20:51] <Agrajag> lol Stevie_D
[20:51] <Stevie_D> :)
[20:52] <DarkUnderlord> Okay then, Z will finish Saul.
[20:52] <DarkUnderlord> I'll officially assign him to Alpha Gruppe.
[20:52] <DarkUnderlord> Z will then work on Lone Star and forget the dialogue for a few weeks.
[20:52] <DarkUnderlord> You okay with that Z?
[20:53] <Zihuatanejo> yeah, cool - i might grab another dialogue from CotC to tide me over at the same time
[20:53] <Zihuatanejo> since its for the demo, i want the dialogue there to be GOOD
[20:53] <DarkUnderlord> Basically, Alpha becomes your priority and any dialogue you do is not a priority.
[20:53] <Zihuatanejo> cool
[20:53] <Agrajag> Zihuatanejo: I meant to tell you that I appreciate your comments on the others' dialogues
[20:54] <DarkUnderlord> Done
[20:54] <Agrajag> it's nice not to be the only person to proof-read a dialogue
[20:54] <Zihuatanejo> it's just supplemental to your lists really agra
[20:54] <Zihuatanejo> a bit of encouragement
[20:54] <DarkUnderlord> Rutger...
[20:54] <DarkUnderlord> I should notify or just take off? What's your feeling Stevie?
[20:54] <Agrajag> yeah... well thanks anyway. it helps
[20:54] <Zihuatanejo> no worries
[20:54] <Stevie_D> hmm - en-Beta, I think, DU
[20:55] <Agrajag> I would notify
[20:55] <Stevie_D> if he wants to continue with Lone Star, he's welcome to come on board
[20:55] <Agrajag> that's true though, of course
[20:55] <DarkUnderlord> Done. I'll PM him about the change. Yeah, he can still contribute to Lone Star but we'll expect dialogue from him now.
[20:55] <Stevie_D> cool
[20:55] <DarkUnderlord> Plus Agrajag can start keeping track of him, which I'm sure he enjoys.
[20:55] <Stevie_D> lol :D
[20:55] <Agrajag> haha
[20:55] * Agrajag adds Rutger to the offline beta manager
[20:56] <DarkUnderlord> All right, that's it for the meber shuffling...
The situation with Gamma Group
[20:56] <DarkUnderlord> #
[20:56] <DarkUnderlord> # td.studios - Gamma Group report.
[20:56] <DarkUnderlord> As you know, the intro movie got
[20:56] <DarkUnderlord> "delayed" fo 3 months because td.studios couldn't catch up with Dan01
[20:56] <DarkUnderlord> ... or there was some miscommunication there or something.
[20:56] <Agrajag> that sucks
[20:56] <Stevie_D> yeah, shame, that
[20:56] <Agrajag> I'm wondering if we've lost the guy
[20:56] <Agrajag> studios, that is
[20:56] <DarkUnderlord> I'm yet to e-mail Dan01 about our intro movie because I still have to get around to that but no, we haven't lost him.
[20:56] <Agrajag> oh, well.. Dan01 too, actually
[20:57] <DarkUnderlord> Just as soon as I make a decision on this newspaper thing.
[20:57] <Stevie_D> studios is still logging in
[20:57] <DarkUnderlord> I let him know last week that it'd be another week before I got back to him "officially".
[20:57] <Stevie_D> not to much posting going on by the fella, thoguh
[20:57] <Agrajag> haven't seen him posting anything for a long time though
[20:58] <DarkUnderlord> Yes, there hasn't been much "sorting" going on in terms of outstanding work and given some of the problems with the intro movie (EG: The car going the wrong way), I think that might be because he's having trouble getting a grasp of everything I / we want / need.
[20:59] <DarkUnderlord> He's a really fucking good artist too and he hasn't done any art since I made him "Art Leader".
[20:59] <Agrajag> I thought he was supposed to sort the whole art-scramble out, but I suppose that's too much to ask for
[20:59] <Stevie_D> ReaverJoe is turning out to be a one-man gold mine, though
[20:59] <DarkUnderlord> I was hoping he might be able to make the chat but I'll go on regardless...
[20:59] <Agrajag> yeah... he's productive
[21:00] <DarkUnderlord> I'm basically going to take over Gamma Group and put td.studios back down to "normal artist".
[21:00] <Agrajag> I think this is quite early in the morning for him
[21:00] <DarkUnderlord> It'll just mean the responsibility of managing everything in the art department will be on my head.
[21:00] <Agrajag> like.. 5-6 am or something
[21:00] <Agrajag> oh, wait
[21:00] <Agrajag> doh, it's the other way around
[21:00] <Stevie_D> you okay with that, DU?
[21:00] <Agrajag> should be the afternoon for him... :oops:
[21:00] <DarkUnderlord> Part of that will be making some lists of stuff we have and need.
[21:00] <Stevie_D> what with the election stuff, and all
[21:00] <DarkUnderlord> Well, I think it's stuff I can only do anyway.
[21:01] <DarkUnderlord> The more I think about it.
[21:01] <DarkUnderlord> I mean, you lot still have trouble remembering whats gong on in all the locations.
[21:01] <Agrajag> yeah
[21:01] <DarkUnderlord> Where-as I can pretty much tell you off the top of my head (bar a few details)
[21:01] <Agrajag> it's probably best to have it that way
[21:01] <DarkUnderlord> So things like the town entry maps we want and all that are better coming from me.
[21:02] <DarkUnderlord> Who knows what the location is and needs, then from someone who... How can I word that? Hasn't got it in his head as well and is better off using his real talent to do good art, rather than managing people.
[21:02] <DarkUnderlord> Where-as I suck at art completely...
[21:03] <Agrajag> hehe
[21:03] <Stevie_D> I suppose it makes sense, but you've loaded a lot of other things on your plate, too
[21:03] <Stevie_D> Quinn's dialogue, etc.
[21:03] <Stevie_D> all the other CotC things
[21:03] <DarkUnderlord> The only problems I'll have will be in working out what bum-mapping is and who can do what and how that all works on a technical level - which is where I'll be referring to td.studios and the other artists.
[21:03] <Stevie_D> plus, I'll be hassling you for Lone Star things in a bit ;)
[21:03] <Agrajag> it's not really that heavy a burden to handle the art forums though, I think
[21:03] <Stevie_D> bum-mapping <== lol
[21:03] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, I'm aware of it.
[21:04] <DarkUnderlord> Heh. Bump-mapping.
[21:04] <Agrajag> haha
[21:04] <DarkUnderlord> I have optimistic plans for what I can accomplish tomorrow.
[21:04] <Stevie_D> cool
[21:04] <Agrajag> sounds.. optimistic
[21:04] <DarkUnderlord> Mainly just some basic lists for now.
[21:05] <Agrajag> hopefully the "Arts 'n maps" section in the quests will come in handy
[21:05] <Stevie_D> true that. Quite a lot of items and such racking up now, I think
[21:06] <Agrajag> right.. next?
Too many references?
[21:06] <DarkUnderlord> 5. Should we not have any more cripplingly unfunny, totally unnecessary, totally out of place and distracting pop culture references in FMF?
[21:07] <DarkUnderlord> 6. Should we weed out most, if not all, the pop culture references that have been put into FMF so far, particularly the ones that have all the humour and subtlety of a lump mallet and which make a mockery of all the hours of work that have otherwise been put into the mod?
[21:07] <Stevie_D> I agree with whoever wrote that
[21:07] <Zihuatanejo> heh
[21:07] <Agrajag> lol
[21:07] <Stevie_D> I was a bit pissed off at the time I wrote that, but the song remains the same
[21:07] <DarkUnderlord> Well, it was you so I should hope you do. :)
[21:08] <Stevie_D> no disrespect to rakalen (who might be reading the log - hi rakalen!) but it was talk of Addams family references that tipped the scales
[21:08] <DarkUnderlord> Z, Agrajag? COmments / thoughts?
[21:08] <Stevie_D> admittedly, I haven't read the dialogue (for shame)
[21:08] <Stevie_D> but you know the old straw that broke the camel's back thing
[21:08] <DarkUnderlord> I have. (If you mean Fetzer)
[21:08] <Agrajag> well... I'm in two minds about references
[21:08] <Zihuatanejo> personally, i'm not a fan of huge, explicit references in the main game (random encounters are fine)
[21:08] <Stevie_D> it's not the weight of the straw, but what it contributes to
[21:09] <Stevie_D> @ DU, yes, that dialogue
[21:09] <DarkUnderlord> What does it contribute to?
[21:09] <Zihuatanejo> the odd obscure one can be fun, but not Addams Family and Dukes of Hazzard
[21:09] <Agrajag> while I think some of them, if done right, can be really amusing, too much is always too much
[21:09] <Stevie_D> the mass of pop culture references
[21:09] <Agrajag> it's highly dependent on the situation
[21:09] <DarkUnderlord> I have to admit I saw Shamus "Dr McCoy" in Vault 31 in the wiki as "Dr McCoy" and had a heart attack.
[21:09] <Stevie_D> http://www.fanmadefallout.com/?chapter=Status
[21:09] <DarkUnderlord> Heh
[21:09] <Stevie_D> Pop-Culture References and Developer Jokes: Three times as many as in Fallout 2. They will be culled. Eventually. Maybe. I hope.
[21:10] <Stevie_D> agreed with the McCoy thing
Example of a good reference
[21:10] <Agrajag> for example, in Stevie's dialogue for the historian in sandover, there's a quite nice and subtle reference to a book by Terry Pratchett
[21:11] <Stevie_D> it would be hard to come up with a list of all the references in game
[21:11] <Agrajag> which, by the way, I was just reading when I read that dialogue, and it gave me a hearty laugh
[21:11] <DarkUnderlord> So "Daisy Duke" who became "Daisy Duket" (LOOK WE ADDED A T!), "Fetzer" / Fester, Dr McCoy, umm.. Others?
[21:11] <Zihuatanejo> really? i'm going to go check that out, must have missed it
[21:11] <Stevie_D> I guess it's a matter of play testing it and pruning those that really jar
[21:11] <Agrajag> if I hadn't read the fifth elephant, I doubt I would have understood it, and it wouldn't have been a problem
[21:11] <Stevie_D> and agreeing from here on in to be far more vigilant about the references
[21:12] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, those are the good kind of references.
[21:12] <Stevie_D> re: that particluar reference (ouch, makes me look like a hypocrite)
[21:12] <DarkUnderlord> Really obscure that only fans of that material will understand. The rest of the people will ignore and won't even notice.
[21:12] <Agrajag> lol Stevie_D
Fetzer / Fester
[21:12] <DarkUnderlord> But "Fester" when his name is "Fetzer" just doesn't make any fucking sense.
[21:12] <Agrajag> I'm inclined to agree to that
[21:12] <DarkUnderlord> Unless you go "HAHA ADDAMS FAMILY LAWL"
[21:12] <Stevie_D> to repeat myself and at the risk of sounding boring, that was originally written in as a placeholder
[21:12] <Stevie_D> (got to write that for the benefit of the log)
[21:12] <DarkUnderlord> Fetzer?
[21:13] <Agrajag> yeah.. still it's a good one, Stevie_D ;)
[21:13] <DarkUnderlord> You mean his name?
[21:13] <DarkUnderlord> We're using someone's "place-holder" name again?
[21:13] <Stevie_D> the Jonathan reference Ag was talking about, DU
[21:13] <Agrajag> um, we were talking about that specific reference Stevie made in the dialogue for the sandover historian
[21:13] <DarkUnderlord> I think we've done that 3 times so far that I can name off the top of my head.
[21:14] <DarkUnderlord> Oh, okay.
[21:14] <Agrajag> anyway, I pretty much agree to what was said regarding this topic in that old thread... I'll link it
[21:15] <Stevie_D> what pisses me off is the way references are thrown when you compare them to the painstaking work that goes into creating new and original quest ideas
[21:15] <Agrajag> ... if I can find it
[21:15] * Myk|zZzZzZz (~Myk-El@69-170-52-79.chvlva.adelphia.net) has joined #FanMadeFallout
Decision on references
[21:15] <DarkUnderlord> All in favour of removing obvious references to well-known material (IE: Things everyone knows about, even if they've nevr even seen an episode, like Star Trek and Dukes of Hazard), references in people's names
[21:15] <Stevie_D> hey up, Myk :)
[21:15] <DarkUnderlord> ... ANything else that's an "obvious no-no"?
[21:15] <DarkUnderlord> Hey Myk
[21:15] <Myk|zZzZzZz> Hey there.
[21:15] * Myk|zZzZzZz is now known as Myk-El
[21:15] <Stevie_D> not that I can think of
[21:16] <Agrajag> well.. I think when they go overboard
[21:16] <Agrajag> like the dr. lector reference in that holodisk in SAD
[21:16] <DarkUnderlord> I messed that up. Try again: All in favour of removing obvious references to well-known material (IE: Things everyone knows about, even if they've never even seen an episode, like Star Trek and Dukes of Hazard) and using references in people's names, say aye.
[21:16] <Stevie_D> aye, and then some
[21:16] <DarkUnderlord> Correction: and NOT using reference's for people's names
[21:17] <Agrajag> aye
[21:17] <Myk-El> Aye
[21:17] <Agrajag> lol, I'm confused now
[21:17] <Agrajag> but yeah, that sounds right
[21:17] <DarkUnderlord> We'll keep such references to the random "special" encounters.
[21:17] <Stevie_D> sure, no complaints there
[21:17] <Zihuatanejo> aye
[21:17] * Myk-El nods in affirmation.
[21:18] <DarkUnderlord> Any references in-game beyond that will be to less-well-known material and done in such a manner that people who do NOT get the reference will not notice it as a reference.
[21:18] <Stevie_D> I mean, I was happy with the full Fight Club thing in SOTW's suggestion on condition that it was a totally isolated random encounter
[21:18] <DarkUnderlord> EG: Fetzer will never be called "Fester" because it makes no sense for someone who doesn't know the Addams Familt to do that.
[21:18] <Stevie_D> well, maybe toned down slightly, but you get the idea
[21:19] <DarkUnderlord> If people called him "Fester" as a nickname because he stunk and had a festering wound, then that would be okay... But it's not really a "reference" then anyway.
[21:20] <DarkUnderlord> Any questions or further comments on references?
[21:20] <DarkUnderlord> The trippy maps could have some references creep in them maybe too...
[21:20] <Stevie_D> do we agree to be more vigilant whennew dialogue writers come in, eager to pump their work full of TEH LOL references?
[21:20] <DarkUnderlord> Sure.
[21:21] <Stevie_D> natch, I'll back anyone who takes a stand
[21:21] <Agrajag> at least the unguided trip maps
[21:21] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah. I mean like a "glimpse of the future" trippy map with the crashed Star-Trek shuttle type stuff.
[21:21] <DarkUnderlord> It
[21:21] <Agrajag> (one of) the bad trip map is a reference to the night of the living dead
[21:22] <DarkUnderlord> 's more a "Special" encounter.
[21:22] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, that one too.
[21:22] <Agrajag> you're in a house, and the ghouls are zombies... hehe
[21:22] <Stevie_D> that's great - I didn't know we were going to do that
[21:22] <Stevie_D> the PC dies and wakes up?
[21:22] <Stevie_D> "fuck me, that was bad"
[21:22] <Agrajag> don't know if it's too much to have them float "braains!" or not though
[21:22] <Stevie_D> "no more dream juice for me"
[21:22] <Agrajag> heh, yeah
[21:23] <Agrajag> something like it
Lack of Females
[21:23] <DarkUnderlord> 7. Where have all the important females gone? Lack of significant female NPCs in FMF. Is a sex-change in order for some of our males?
[21:23] <DarkUnderlord> First thought: The Judge in Lone Star
[21:23] <Agrajag> a suggestion is that if the PC manages to kill the zombies (should be hard), he ends up having wasted the whole town he was in
[21:23] <Stevie_D> or, how I learned to stop worrying and love mysogeny in FMF
[21:23] <Stevie_D> DU: we've been toying with a female Mrs. Big for Lone Star
[21:24] <Stevie_D> an amalgam of Mr. Mouflon's Dowager suggestion with the power vacuum
[21:24] * DarkUnderlord thinks there are some threads he should've read.
[21:24] * Agrajag thinks that's indeed the case
[21:25] <DarkUnderlord> Ignoring Lone Star for a moment, though, what about in general?
[21:25] <Stevie_D> Stevie D agrees and will hassle him mercilessly when Lone Star come up :P
[21:25] <DarkUnderlord> I mean, no women on the board.
[21:25] <DarkUnderlord> (In Vault 31)
[21:25] <Agrajag> I was thinking maybe the high priest of the rat temple is a woman
[21:25] <Stevie_D> Sandover is a bit mantastic
[21:25] <DarkUnderlord> No Female SM's
[21:25] <DarkUnderlord> Sandover yep.
[21:25] <Zihuatanejo> really, i was just concerened about the lack of female NPCs in CotC
[21:25] <DarkUnderlord> CotC...
[21:25] <Agrajag> had a nice name for it, but I forgot it...
[21:25] <Agrajag> a nice name for her, if that was the case, I mean
[21:25] <Zihuatanejo> i think sandover is a bit better, after all catherine is pretty important there
[21:25] <Stevie_D> mind you, Sandover is largely written up, so I'd hesitate to make any changes there
[21:25] <DarkUnderlord> The other problem is going the other way and having every bloody key character a woman just becausewe felt we had to balance it out.
[21:26] <Agrajag> yeah, but if you look at it... about 90% of the NPCs in CotC are male
[21:26] <Zihuatanejo> definitely, i just find as a writer it's easier to write a man for obvious reasons
[21:26] <Stevie_D> just so long as we have a decent smattering of female NPCs, I'm cool
[21:26] <DarkUnderlord> ... because you're gay?
[21:26] <Zihuatanejo> yes. exactly.
[21:26] <Agrajag> lol
Do we need a ratio?
[21:26] <Stevie_D> it doesn't have to be exactly 50/50
[21:26] <DarkUnderlord> :P
[21:27] <Agrajag> no, doesn't have to be 50/50
[21:27] <DarkUnderlord> 80 / 20?
[21:27] <Agrajag> but 90/10 is too little, imo
[21:27] <Stevie_D> 70 / 30 perhaps. Whatevs
[21:27] <Zihuatanejo> i don't think we need a ratio, really
[21:27] <Stevie_D> not like we have to get the calculator out
[21:27] <Myk-El> I don't really remember all that many important females in the two fallout games, either.
[21:27] <Agrajag> there's tandi and there's lynette
[21:27] <Zihuatanejo> just if we end up with a city, with no important females, we know something's screwy
[21:27] <DarkUnderlord> The Followrs of the Apocalypse.
[21:27] <DarkUnderlord> Well, I mean there's Daisy in CotC.
[21:27] <DarkUnderlord> Kind of a significant female character.
[21:28] <Agrajag> and Marie... and...
[21:28] <DarkUnderlord> Who all the men oggle over.
[21:28] <Stevie_D> that's true, Myk. And it's not like we thought, "omg where are teh womens?"
[21:28] <Zihuatanejo> who is kind of defined by 'lesbian who gets murdered'
[21:28] <Agrajag> and Ini, the special waster kid
[21:28] <DarkUnderlord> Yup.
[21:28] <Agrajag> that's about it though, I'm afraid
[21:28] <DarkUnderlord> I don't think it's *too* bad.
[21:28] <Agrajag> that's 3 out of a rough 30
[21:28] <DarkUnderlord> I mean, what's the real problem here?
[21:28] <DarkUnderlord> No female "wives"?
[21:28] <DarkUnderlord> There'll be plenty of generic female filler NPCs around the place.
[21:28] <Agrajag> the problem is that we're only representing one half of the fallout population
[21:29] <DarkUnderlord> Just not many of them are worth talking to.
[21:29] <DarkUnderlord> How about a tribe of warrior women?
[21:29] <Stevie_D> I don't think there's a major problem, just so long as we keep it in our minds when we're making NPCs
[21:29] <Agrajag> haha
[21:29] <DarkUnderlord> ... There's a woman in the Houds who's important.
[21:29] <Zihuatanejo> ha
[21:29] <Myk-El> Oh, great, here come the Xena references. :P
[21:29] <DarkUnderlord> Sandover has Alexander's daughter.
[21:29] <Zihuatanejo> i just think that occasionally, fallout has a tendency to be a bit adolescent
[21:29] <Agrajag> I agree
[21:30] <Stevie_D> for a game that prides itself of being adult, sure
[21:30] <Zihuatanejo> i am a cool man in a leather jacket with a bit gun
[21:30] <Stevie_D> on, not of ^
[21:30] <Zihuatanejo> shoot some raiders, screw some prostitutes
[21:30] <Zihuatanejo> i just think that an "adult" game should be more adult occasionally
[21:30] <DarkUnderlord> The adolescent grows up to become the adult. The words adolescent and adult ultimately come from forms of the same Latin word, adolscere, meaning “to grow up.” The present participle of adolscere, adolscns, from which adolescent derives, means “growing up,” while the past participle adultus, the source of adult, means “grown up.” Appropriately enough, adolescent, first recorded in English in a work written perhaps in 1440, seems to have come into the language before adult, first recorded in a work published in 1531.
[21:30] <Zihuatanejo> and one step to doing that is to have some believable females
[21:30] <Zihuatanejo> but that's just me
[21:31] <Stevie_D> yep. Adult doesn't mean as much swearing, violence and sex as possible
[21:31] <Stevie_D> no, I agree completely
[21:31] <Agrajag> women in fallout are generally reprented as whores, or not represented at all. bar a handful of important female NPCs, way too many of them are men
[21:31] <DarkUnderlord> How many important women do you know in the real world?
[21:31] <DarkUnderlord> Your boss?
[21:31] <DarkUnderlord> Members of Parliament?
[21:31] <DarkUnderlord> Female Presidents?
[21:31] <Stevie_D> MISSUS FUCKING THATCHER!!!
[21:31] <DarkUnderlord> (Apart form Geena Davis in that new show)
[21:31] <Myk-El> Sure it does. Do you not visit other video game forums? Teh PS2 is teh Adult! Zee Boobies! LOLZERZ!
[21:31] <Stevie_D> ;)
[21:31] <Zihuatanejo> they don't all have to be in authority
[21:32] <Stevie_D> lol Myk
[21:32] <Zihuatanejo> look at shows like the west wing, firefly etc
[21:32] <Zihuatanejo> female characters on the same level as the guys, but just as fleshed out and believable
[21:32] <Stevie_D> I think a lot of women pull their husband's strings
[21:32] <Agrajag> what, isn't half of the people on earth female?
[21:32] <Stevie_D> err... I'm thinking historically
[21:32] <Agrajag> it's not just that we don't have any important female NPCs, it's that we barely have female NPCs at all
[21:33] <Stevie_D> weak kings have had strong wives who've kept their shit together
[21:33] <Stevie_D> but the king is still the figurehead
[21:33] <DarkUnderlord> Thatcher, the UK's first and ONLY female Prime Minister out of...
[21:33] <DarkUnderlord> a lot.
[21:33] <Stevie_D> true
[21:34] <Zihuatanejo> i see the argument that in a post-apocalyptic world, men are likely to rise to the top through brute force
[21:34] <Myk-El> I think the real question is, why aren't there more transvestite NPCs. Why are they not represented!? ;)
[21:34] <Agrajag> we could get away with having most important NPCs male, for historical reasons
[21:34] <Stevie_D> Z is right that we don't have to have women in positions of power, just have them more believable and 3 dimensional
[21:34] <DarkUnderlord> We're merely being representative of the real world. You know, glass ceiling and all that.
[21:34] <Agrajag> that's the way things usually are. but that doesn't explain why most non important NPCs are male
[21:34] <Zihuatanejo> yeah, i've got no objections to the top dogs of locations being guys
[21:34] <Zihuatanejo> simply because that's believable
[21:34] <DarkUnderlord> So the odd thing like a female Mr. Big or Judge will be fine?
[21:35] <Agrajag> sure
[21:35] <Stevie_D> I reckon
[21:35] <Zihuatanejo> yeah, i'm not saying that anywhere near 50/50 is needed
Females in CotC
[21:35] <DarkUnderlord> So CotC as it stands...?
[21:35] <Stevie_D> and the way Mrs. Big is written up so far makes it really rather good, I think
[21:35] <DarkUnderlord> Any sex changes in order?
[21:35] <Stevie_D> I won't lose any sleep if we don't
[21:35] <Agrajag> but how many female barkeepers do we have? shopkeepers? people to give quests for the PC? basically any person the PC can talk to
[21:35] <Myk-El> It could still be "Mr. Big" and when the PC finally meets Mr. Big, it turns out that its a woman.
[21:35] <DarkUnderlord> ... or does the male-centric town revolving around a giant quest with Daisy enough?
[21:36] <DarkUnderlord> does = is
[21:36] <Stevie_D> Myk, check out the later posts in this thread: http://www.fanmadefallout.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1604
[21:36] <Stevie_D> particularly CT's one starting, "Mmmmm... a rather refreshing and productive IRC chat led to some major strides in the Mr. Big case. Here's what we got: "
[21:37] <Agrajag> I think the high priest in the rat temple could be female, for one
[21:37] <DarkUnderlord> I'm not big on that.
[21:37] <DarkUnderlord> I think A priest could be female...
[21:37] <DarkUnderlord> Not the big one though.
[21:37] <DarkUnderlord> Maybe the drug seller one?
[21:37] <Agrajag> heh, the only female priest turns out to be a drugdealer
[21:37] <Agrajag> but sure
[21:38] <Agrajag> why not the high priest though?
[21:38] <Agrajag> not that I really mind, just curious to hear your motivation
[21:38] <Myk-El> So great minds think a like. I've been gone for 4 months. Sue me. :P
[21:38] <DarkUnderlord> I think changing him to a her just to fill a quota is never a good idea.
[21:38] <Stevie_D> lol :P
[21:39] <Zihuatanejo> yeah, quotas are always bad
[21:39] <Myk-El> My brains still in Sandover. I'm trying to wrap my head around CotC, atm.
[21:39] <Stevie_D> coolio
[21:39] <Agrajag> um.. but changing the drug priest into a female is okay...?
[21:40] <DarkUnderlord> Shut up.
[21:40] <Stevie_D> heh
[21:40] <DarkUnderlord> DO NOT QUESTION ME
[21:40] <Agrajag> it's obvious that you're a politician
[21:40] <DarkUnderlord> I dunno, I just thought the main guy as a "guy" is fine and if we were going to change someone, make it one of the lesser ones just to make it known there are females in town.
[21:41] <Myk-El> When you say 'drug priest' are you talking about Luke, or is there another one? (Seeing as how I have chosen to write Luke, it would be nice to know if he was a she before I started ;) ).
[21:41] <Agrajag> okay, sure...
[21:41] <DarkUnderlord> Rather than the biggest, baddest one because "we want women to be in a position of power to fulfil our quota" if that makes ense at all.
[21:41] <Agrajag> Myk-El: that's luke, yes
[21:41] * Myk-El nods to Agra.
[21:41] <Agrajag> so feel free to come up with a good female name for him. err, her
[21:41] <DarkUnderlord> Lukette.
[21:41] <Zihuatanejo> yeah, i totally see that DU
[21:41] <Agrajag> haha
[21:41] <Agrajag> Lukette
[21:41] <Stevie_D> how do you do that action thing on IRC? * Myk-El nods to Agra.
[21:42] <Zihuatanejo> (the quota stuff that is)
[21:42] <Agrajag> Stevie_D: /me [action]
[21:42] <Stevie_D> cool
[21:42] * Stevie_D has teh powar
[21:42] <Stevie_D> win
[21:42] <Agrajag> lol
[21:42] <DarkUnderlord> oooh! Leia.
[21:42] * Myk-El lols.
[21:42] <DarkUnderlord> Luke - Leia. LOL
[21:42] <Agrajag> who was it that we tried to explain that to? we tried like.. forever, but he couldn't get it right
[21:42] * Myk-El slaps DarkUnderlord with a wet trout.
[21:42] <Zihuatanejo> uh-oh REFERENCE
[21:43] <Agrajag> was it... Bloodlust? MF? damn, I don't remember
[21:43] * Stevie_D waits his turn for a go with the trout
[21:43] <DarkUnderlord> But it could work though 'cause it's not really a reference. I mean, she's not a princess. It's just a girl's name and I thought of it because of OMG Luke Skywalker
[21:43] <Stevie_D> sure, I was being facetious :(
[21:43] <Stevie_D> no sweat one way or the other
[21:44] <DarkUnderlord> Were you? Thanks for pointing that out.
[21:44] <Stevie_D> don't mention it, chief
[21:44] <DarkUnderlord> I really like it when people point out things that are really useful. Like when water's wet.
[21:44] <Stevie_D> I'll keep it up :)
[21:44] <DarkUnderlord> I just felt it needed an answer.
Decision on Lack of Females
[21:45] <DarkUnderlord> So "Where have all the important females gone?" ?
[21:45] <DarkUnderlord> We're fine with it, we'll just make sure to throw one in every once in a while?
[21:45] <Agrajag> yeah
[21:45] <Zihuatanejo> yeah, i'm cool with that
[21:45] <Myk-El> There here, in my bed, where they should be. ;)
[21:45] <DarkUnderlord> This is just one of things to keep in mind, rather than develop any policy over?
[21:45] <Agrajag> omg Myk-El teh sexist
[21:45] <Stevie_D> teh gigalo
Lone Star, 5 weeks to go
[21:45] <DarkUnderlord> 8. Lone Star, 5 weeks to go...
[21:45] * Myk-El nods.
[21:45] <Agrajag> I think so
[21:46] <Zihuatanejo> yeah, just when developing NPCs on Alpha, go "wait, this quest could be just as easily done with a woman"
[21:46] <Zihuatanejo> occasionally
[21:46] <Stevie_D> such as with Mrs. Big
[21:46] <DarkUnderlord> We'll end up with women everywhere!
[21:46] <Agrajag> okay: WE'LL NEVER MAKE IT OMGLOL!!!!1
[21:46] <DarkUnderlord> Won't we?
[21:46] <Zihuatanejo> WE'LL HAVE TO GIVE THEM THE VOTE NEXT
[21:46] <DarkUnderlord> Is that a problem?
[21:46] <Stevie_D> lol Z
[21:46] <Agrajag> ask Stevie_D
[21:46] <Stevie_D> do what, sorry?
[21:46] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, I will: Is that a problem Stevie_D?
[21:46] <Stevie_D> what, women in Lone Star?
[21:47] <Stevie_D> shit, no
[21:47] <DarkUnderlord> Lone Star, 5 weeks to go...
[21:47] <Stevie_D> oh right
[21:47] <DarkUnderlord> WE'LL NEVAR MAEK IT!!1
[21:47] <Agrajag> ...
[21:47] <Stevie_D> biggest problem is that we need to run tonnes of material past you, DU
[21:47] <Agrajag> I take that as a yes
[21:47] <DarkUnderlord> Right, so that optimism I had about tomorrow...
[21:47] <Stevie_D> a lot of things are at the stage where we're saying, "this is really cool, but now DU needs to check it over"
[21:48] <Stevie_D> or, "you and I disagree about this - let's ask DU to decide"
[21:48] <Agrajag> maybe it was a bit optimistic to be optimistic
[21:48] <Myk-El> Optimisim is a red herring.
[21:48] <DarkUnderlord> Just off the top of your head, how many of the 15 quests do we have?
[21:48] <Agrajag> Myk-El shares his wisdom...
[21:48] <Stevie_D> tricky. Most of them.
[21:48] <DarkUnderlord> Presuming that what you like goes in?
[21:49] <Stevie_D> total guess: I'd say ten
[21:49] <Agrajag> we have about twice as many ideas though
[21:49] <Stevie_D> although some of those quest allocations are for things like the bounty hunter quests; although there'll be shit-loads of them, they only count as one quest
[21:49] <Agrajag> just from counting the amount of question marks
[21:49] <Stevie_D> true re: the ideas
[21:49] * MF2 (MF@h46042.upc-h.chello.nl) has joined #FanMadeFallout
[21:49] <Stevie_D> but they'll be pruned down as they go
[21:49] <Agrajag> good morning MF2
[21:49] <MF2> hey ther
[21:49] <MF2> e
[21:49] <Stevie_D> hi, MF
[21:49] <MF2> good er..afternoon :)
[21:50] <Agrajag> :>
[21:50] * Bloodluzt (~Bloodlust@150.140.130.223) has joined #FanMadeFallout
[21:50] <Stevie_D> in they all come
[21:50] <Stevie_D> hi, Blooders
[21:50] <Agrajag> good... afternoon, Bloodluzt
[21:50] <Bloodluzt> ZzzzzZ Morning...ZzzZZzz
[21:50] <DarkUnderlord> Hey MF, Bloodlust
[21:50] <MF2> Hey undies
[21:50] <Myk-El> Hey there, MF, Blood.
[21:51] <Myk-El> Agra: I have no wisdom to share. I'm on beta team, remember. o_O
[21:51] <MF2> What's on?
[21:51] <Stevie_D> DU: the university, the Mrs. Big suggestion and the carnival all need your nod
[21:51] <Agrajag> Myk-El: what was that about optimism being a red herring then? sounds like wisdom to me...
[21:51] <DarkUnderlord> Is there a quest list?
[21:51] <DarkUnderlord> That 'quest index' isn't updated is it?
[21:51] <Stevie_D> also, we need a resolution to the Deathclaw quest (ie: is it the deathclaws or the raccoons that raised the baby?)
[21:51] <Stevie_D> no
[21:51] <Agrajag> and the deathclaw stole my baby-idea too
[21:52] <Agrajag> ^^
[21:52] <Myk-El> No, that was misquote of a bad line from a bad movie that had little to do with the conversation. ;)
[21:52] <Stevie_D> basically, since all the quests are up in the air, any of them can be counted as relevant suggestions
[21:52] <Agrajag> lol, I figured it was something like it
[21:52] <Agrajag> didn't get it though
[21:53] <DarkUnderlord> Do you have your own list? I'm thinking if we start going through them one-by-one...
[21:53] <DarkUnderlord> Is the quest In / Out or what's happening to it.
[21:53] <Stevie_D> I can remember which I think are crap and which I think are going to make the grade, if that's what you mean
[21:53] <DarkUnderlord> I'd go through all of them regardless just to confirm.
[21:54] <Zihuatanejo> brb
Quest: Rangers & Ranger Quests
[21:54] <DarkUnderlord> If we sort the forum by topic title and go through them alphabetically.
[21:54] <Stevie_D> now, on the IRC, you mean?
[21:54] <DarkUnderlord> Just quickly.
[21:54] <Agrajag> are we going to do that now? that's a rough 20 ideas to go through
[21:54] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, nothing too long. Just a quick re-cap.
[21:54] <Stevie_D> okay
[21:54] <Agrajag> I see
[21:55] <Agrajag> I'll just go grab some b... hrm, lunch
[21:55] <DarkUnderlord> EG: Quest Ideas: Rangers & Ranger Quests - This one was all those umm. whatever.
[21:55] <Agrajag> brb
[21:55] <DarkUnderlord> I can then say "Yep, rmeember that. Yep, we want that. Okay, so that counts as one. Next".
[21:55] <DarkUnderlord> Make sense?
[21:55] <Stevie_D> Buy a raffle ticket/track down the con-artists
[21:55] <Stevie_D> sure
[21:55] <DarkUnderlord> You're starting with that one?
[21:56] <Stevie_D> that's next on the list after having clicked sort by topic title
[21:56] <DarkUnderlord> Quest Ideas: Rangers & Ranger Quests is first.
[21:56] <DarkUnderlord> THAT WAS ONLY AN EXAMPLE!
[21:56] <Stevie_D> I C
[21:56] <DarkUnderlord> Jus to get over that one officially though...
[21:56] <Myk-El> Well, it is the first one is the sort order.
[21:57] <DarkUnderlord> The basic premise is off a serious of constantly randomly generated quests which the PC can go on. Correct?
[21:57] <DarkUnderlord> Deathclaw attacks, raider attacks etc...
[21:57] <Stevie_D> yup, very basically
[21:57] <DarkUnderlord> Nothing scripted. Just like being a caravan guard.
[21:58] <DarkUnderlord> Even though there'll be several different scenarios, they all count as "1 quest" in the official 15.
[21:58] <Stevie_D> I daresay we'll have scripted quests tied to the Rangers, but that thread is a summary of randoms for the Rangers
[21:58] <Stevie_D> yup
[21:58] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, that's in. Next.
[21:58] <MF2> Wait a second
[21:58] <MF2> are we going to limit them?
[21:58] <DarkUnderlord> Limit them how?
[21:58] <MF2> Slave raids have a maximum
[21:58] <MF2> for example
[21:58] <DarkUnderlord> Nope.
[21:59] <MF2> okay
Quest: Buy a raffle ticket/track down the con-artists
[21:59] <Stevie_D> Buy a raffle ticket/track down the con-artists
[21:59] <DarkUnderlord> Though the Deathclaw attacks will stop if the PC wipes out the Deathclaws.
[21:59] <DarkUnderlord> Can you re-cap this one Stevie?
[21:59] <Stevie_D> Let's say the PC enters a raffle in some city and wins the 'mysterious prize'. He's approached by the contest holders and says 'you need to pay the registration fee, but don't worry the prize is real good'.
[21:59] <Stevie_D> And then if he decided to pay, the guys would come back with an even higher priced demand saying, 'oh we forgot a few things. Apparently, Lone Star has a prize tax, blah blah.' and then after the PC plays, the contest holders skiddaddle and the player realizes he's been fooled (maybe it says something in the PIPbox - you suddenly feel like a sucker)
[21:59] <Stevie_D> If you decide not to pay at any time, the contest holders try to fool you by going into a whole bunch of nonsense.
[21:59] <Stevie_D> If you're PC leans more on the 'bullying side' you may be able to threaten something out of them (kinda like the guy in teh Hub who sells you the location of the drug dealers - you can either pay or flex your muscles)
[21:59] <Stevie_D> I would like it if you could run into these Con Artists later, after they have taken your money, perhaps in Crossroads.
[21:59] <Stevie_D> The thing is, they spent all the money they stole, they are stranded in Crossroads, they can't survive the Wastes by themselves. They have run out of money, and have a reputation with the traders, no one will let them tag along.
[21:59] <Stevie_D> So, there would be no positive aspect to killing them, perhaps a quest helping them, after which they 'forget' to reward the PC.
[21:59] <Stevie_D> (that's two separate authors - Fang Teng and Kotario)
[21:59] <Myk-El> I think the slave raides thing was more on the part of lazy design than them actually limiting them for any reason. That or they didn't want the PC to have an indefinite way to make money (like the caravan runs of Fallout 1).
[22:00] <Stevie_D> then I said: There’s mileage in this here quest, so say I. We should expand and develop. Instinctively, I’d suggest we tie it into the carnival/freak show. The con-men can be hangers-on who scam punters who come and see the show. Love Kotario’s thing about the PC bumping into the conmen in Crossroads.
[22:00] <DarkUnderlord> I like that. We'll work on it. It's in. Next.
Quest: (Judge / Arson / Arresting PC)
[22:00] <Stevie_D> Quest ideas: (Judge / Arson / Arresting PC).
[22:01] <Stevie_D> now, this is the thread that lead to those three arrest threads
[22:01] <DarkUnderlord> This is going to be a big one.
[22:01] <Stevie_D> the one where the PC gets nicked by the sheriff
[22:01] <Stevie_D> we can summarise the result of those four threads in one go, i think
[22:01] <Stevie_D> AFAIK, we're all agreed on the basics
[22:01] <DarkUnderlord> Arson is in another thread isn't it?
[22:02] <Stevie_D> PC only gets nicked if his karma is very low, or has bad tags
[22:02] <Stevie_D> yeah, Fang Teng's thread
[22:02] <Stevie_D> kick ass quest
[22:02] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, so this thread just mentions it
[22:02] <Stevie_D> back on the arrest thing - a good PC can get arrested if he intervenes in a bar fight
[22:03] <Stevie_D> and the arrest scenario leads to a night in the cells where the PC can either escape, or get in touch with the criminal underworld
[22:03] <DarkUnderlord> (Not sure I ever really liked actually implementing the bar fight from a scripting point of view but it'll be fun if we can do it)
[22:03] <Stevie_D> not that bar fight, DU
[22:03] <DarkUnderlord> Ohh..
[22:03] <Stevie_D> it's another one - in fact, it's not a bar fight, silly me
[22:03] <Stevie_D> IIRC, it was CT's idea
[22:03] <DarkUnderlord> Is that the 'duel'?
[22:04] <Stevie_D> a girl asks the PC to go and get her boyfriend from the bar, "he's been drinking again"
[22:04] <Stevie_D> but it all ends badly, and the PC gets a night in teh slammer
[22:04] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, I remember this being mentioned.
[22:05] <Stevie_D> it was one of CT's boy scout quests - you know, the character witness ones
[22:05] <Stevie_D> damned if I can find it, though
[22:05] <Stevie_D> might have to PM CT to see if it was ever written up
[22:06] <DarkUnderlord> The arresting thing is something you need my involvement in though.
[22:06] <Stevie_D> sure
[22:07] <DarkUnderlord> Ok. Let's move onto the next one.
[22:07] <Stevie_D> there seem to be an awful lot of quests that have evil solutions that go, "but if the PC is caught, then he ends up in front of the judge"
[22:07] <Stevie_D> which is all well and good, but we're covering pretty much every crime in the book
[22:07] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, this is why I wanted to go through them. Lone Star needs non-Judge / steal / prison / Ranger quests.
[22:07] <Stevie_D> that's cool, too, but could lead to mammoth dialogue requirements
Quest: University / V34 / Temple of the Disk
[22:08] <DarkUnderlord> So moving on, the University? University / V34 / Temple of the Disk
[22:08] <Stevie_D> true. We've got the gambling quest which is still very much in the primordial soup stage
[22:08] <Stevie_D> no offence to Zealot, but I think that was totally off the wall
[22:09] <Agrajag> we revised the history quite a bit
[22:09] <Stevie_D> not sure if it's salvagable
[22:09] <Agrajag> for the university, don't know if you read it DU
[22:10] <DarkUnderlord> cryro-cells?
[22:10] <Stevie_D> yeah, because the background's changed so much
[22:10] <Stevie_D> exactly
[22:10] <Stevie_D> it's all a bit... wtf?
[22:10] <Stevie_D> but I left it open in case there are ideas we can adapt
[22:11] <DarkUnderlord> In terms of the university in general though, any leaning towards what the group will be? Cult, researchers, hermits who don't unerstand what they're in and just need a roof over their heads?
[22:11] <Stevie_D> yup - we've done a shit load of work on that
[22:11] <DarkUnderlord> In "Group: The University"?
[22:11] <Agrajag> they were researching fusion power before the war
[22:11] <Stevie_D> this is what we need your okay on, though
[22:11] <Stevie_D> the very same
[22:11] <Myk-El> I think CT's post is going in the right direction, in terms of what they should be about.
[22:11] <Agrajag> yeah, easie to just read it
[22:11] <Agrajag> +r
[22:11] <Stevie_D> page two, though
[22:12] <Stevie_D> nope, page one, sorry
[22:12] <DarkUnderlord> "University / V34 / Temple of the Disk" sounds like it's a bit whacky but we will need a university quest (I think) or at least one in Red River that deals with getting the guass research.
[22:12] <Stevie_D> post starting: Here is a revised version of the University, thanks to a recent IRC session involving Agra, Zihuatanejo and I. I’ve had to fill in some details that weren’t covered, but the bare bones of the revision are all down to the chat.
[22:13] <Agrajag> I think we agreed to a total of 3 university quests
[22:13] <Stevie_D> yeah
[22:13] <Agrajag> where we have ideas for 2 of them
[22:13] <Stevie_D> the main one, the Cure the Madman one and *blank*
[22:13] <Zihuatanejo> anyone got ideas for the third?
[22:13] <Agrajag> not that I know of
[22:14] <Zihuatanejo> i've been thinking all week, and zilch
[22:14] <Agrajag> the main one is helping out the UDs with their research
[22:14] <Stevie_D> not yet - I mucked around with an idea of trying to get one of the landowner's children into the U
[22:14] <Zihuatanejo> they want to be a scientist?
[22:14] <Stevie_D> yeah
[22:14] <Stevie_D> but the PC can steal the answers to a test paper, or something
[22:15] <Zihuatanejo> sounds cool
[22:15] <Stevie_D> I'm getting hassled by people at this end, btw
[22:15] <DarkUnderlord> I've got some real issues with them researching Fusion...
[22:15] <Stevie_D> they do not appreciate the IMPORTANCE!
[22:15] <Stevie_D> shit
[22:15] <Agrajag> did you know Newton was a farmer?
[22:15] <Stevie_D> nope
[22:15] <Zihuatanejo> that could cause problems
[22:15] <DarkUnderlord> Vault 31 has a Fusion Reactor.
[22:15] <Stevie_D> yup
[22:15] <Agrajag> before he became a scientist, that is... he invented some farming stuff, I think
[22:16] <DarkUnderlord> There's none of the guass stuff in there?
[22:16] <Stevie_D> no
[22:16] <Agrajag> gauss*
[22:16] <DarkUnderlord> I mean, other than a holodisk?
[22:16] <Agrajag> we kinda scrapped gauss from it, yeah...
[22:16] <Stevie_D> although there's no reason why it can't be worked in
[22:16] <DarkUnderlord> The Uni having some kind of small "research" reactor though.
[22:16] <Agrajag> except the RR guys are working on it already, aren't they?
[22:16] <DarkUnderlord> Could power the city.
[22:17] <Zihuatanejo> that's the plan, theoretically
[22:17] <Myk-El> Wasn't the whole reason for the Uni was for the Gauss research quest? Or am I wrong on that?
[22:17] <DarkUnderlord> They are but they haven't been able to fine tune it.
[22:17] <Stevie_D> this is all in the thread
[22:17] <DarkUnderlord> Hence the uni quest. Yeah.
[22:17] <Zihuatanejo> the chat's probably more detailed on what we thought
[22:17] * Bloodluzt (~Bloodlust@150.140.130.223) Quit (Ping timeout�)
[22:17] <Stevie_D> the first post in that thread is out of date
[22:18] <Agrajag> you can find the IRC log, nicely organized just like the official chats, in the wiki
[22:18] <Stevie_D> arr
[22:18] <Stevie_D> brb
[22:18] <DarkUnderlord> LOg #3?
[22:19] <Stevie_D> just a sec
[22:19] <Agrajag> yeah
[22:19] <Agrajag> think so
[22:19] <Stevie_D> it's easier to read the thread
[22:19] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, let's skip the U for now.
[22:19] <Stevie_D> okay
Quest: The Fixer
[22:19] <DarkUnderlord> The Fixer
[22:20] <Stevie_D> ah yeah
[22:20] <Stevie_D> this gave us the Dowager idea
[22:20] <Stevie_D> not to sure if we're going with the FIxer
[22:21] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, reading the first few bits seems to have it conflict with "Mrs Big".
[22:21] <Agrajag> and Dowager = Mrs. Big
[22:21] <Stevie_D> yup
[22:21] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, we'll talk about that as part of the Mr Big conversation.
[22:21] <DarkUnderlord> Next
[22:21] <Stevie_D> right
Quest: Solve the Arson Case
[22:21] <DarkUnderlord> Solve the Arson Case
[22:21] <DarkUnderlord> Still keen on this?
[22:22] <Stevie_D> no real progress there other than to say OMG this is great, let's develop it
[22:22] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, next quest then.
Quest: Rivals
[22:22] <DarkUnderlord> Rivals? What's that?
[22:22] <DarkUnderlord> Wow 8 days old. I should read this shit.
[22:22] <Stevie_D> Zealot Kho's thing
[22:23] <DarkUnderlord> Any good?
[22:23] <Stevie_D> dunno if that's salvagable, either
[22:23] <Stevie_D> a lot of holes... more holes than cheese, really
[22:23] <Stevie_D> (if cheese = good)
[22:23] <Agrajag> :S
[22:23] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, looks like some issues in it as I skim it.
[22:24] <DarkUnderlord> Likely not to get in but I'll read it. Next..
Quest: Non-Ranger Bounty Quests
[22:24] <DarkUnderlord> Non-Ranger Bounty Quests
[22:24] <Stevie_D> we made some headway here, CT's made some summaries, IIRC
[22:24] <Agrajag> yeah.. I'm a bit confused about whatever happened on this one
[22:24] <Stevie_D> dunno how many quest allocations these should take up
[22:25] <Stevie_D> the scripted bounty quests, I mean
[22:25] <Stevie_D> the random ones should be one quest
[22:25] <DarkUnderlord> Nothing's changed for that though? I mean, it's just the same "Random Bounty Quests" one with just a few scripted quests thrown in for fun?
[22:25] <Agrajag> not sure where it's heading, mainly because I didn't take enough time to read it through properly, I suppose
[22:25] <Stevie_D> basically, DU, yeah
[22:25] <DarkUnderlord> It'll all be 1 quest then.
[22:25] <Agrajag> so, no changes on that then?
[22:25] <Stevie_D> what, scripteds and randoms?
[22:25] <Agrajag> are they separated?
[22:25] <DarkUnderlord> Just "Bounty Hunter" quests. The scripted ones are just to add a nice bit of variety and make it interesting.
[22:26] <Agrajag> the bounty quests
[22:26] <Stevie_D> fucking big quest!
[22:26] <Stevie_D> :D
[22:26] <Stevie_D> still, that's cool
[22:26] <Agrajag> yeah
[22:26] <Agrajag> we need some big ones in there
[22:26] <DarkUnderlord> Well, it's all the same "Go kill this bloke". The scripted ones are "Go kill the McGraw gang at the farmhouse outside of town"
[22:26] <Stevie_D> okay
[22:26] <DarkUnderlord> Next
Quest: Help the love-struck freaks
[22:27] <DarkUnderlord> Help the love-struck freaks
[22:27] <Stevie_D> that's a pretty good one
[22:27] <DarkUnderlord> Carnival. Love birds. I like it.
[22:27] <Agrajag> hah, yeah, it's good
[22:27] <Stevie_D> Zihautanejo's IIRC
[22:27] <DarkUnderlord> It's probably going to be in. Next.
Quest: Gambling Quest stage in Lone Star
[22:27] <DarkUnderlord> Gambling Quest stage in Lone Star
[22:27] <Stevie_D> all your stuff bascially
[22:27] <Stevie_D> nothing new
[22:28] <DarkUnderlord> Okay. ANother thing that needs a lot of work. Next
Quest: Find the safe-breaker
[22:28] <DarkUnderlord> Find the safe-breaker
[22:28] <Stevie_D> it's the end of the Crossroads ==> Rusty Springs ==> Lone Star path
[22:28] <Stevie_D> oops
[22:28] <DarkUnderlord> This is one of those "Judge" quests isn't it?
[22:28] <Stevie_D> err... no
[22:29] <Stevie_D> it doesn't involve the judge, although it does involve the sheriff
[22:29] <Stevie_D> wait, my mistake
[22:29] <Stevie_D> the PC can get arrested if he accidentally frames himself
[22:29] <Agrajag> ah, it's this one
[22:30] <Agrajag> with dramatic license for the combination for the safe
[22:30] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, so it's involved in that quagmire. I remember it though.
[22:30] <DarkUnderlord> We'll have to really work out the details of how we can get the PC before a Judge without over-doing it.
[22:30] <DarkUnderlord> Next.
Quest: Evict the family
[22:30] <DarkUnderlord> Evict the family
[22:30] <Agrajag> yeah
[22:30] <Myk-El> <�10Stevie_D: �01the PC can get arrested if he accidentally frames himself> You just warped my fragile little mind. o_O
[22:30] <DarkUnderlord> That's new
[22:31] <Stevie_D> yar, another one from the pen of Stevie D
[22:31] <DarkUnderlord> It looks big.
[22:31] <Stevie_D> fairly substantial
[22:31] <DarkUnderlord> Want to just outline it briefly?
[22:31] <Stevie_D> right
[22:31] <DarkUnderlord> (If you can)
[22:31] <Stevie_D> PC is working for Lone Star's villains
[22:31] <Stevie_D> (it's for baddie PC's)
[22:31] <Stevie_D> actually, I remember speaking to you about this before, DU
[22:31] <Stevie_D> Ambrose the farmer, remember?
[22:32] <Stevie_D> you kill a few of his brahmin for intimidation
[22:32] <Stevie_D> then 'give him an offer he can't refuse'
[22:33] <Agrajag> I remember it...
[22:33] <DarkUnderlord> Nope, I can't remember it.
[22:33] <Stevie_D> oh well
[22:34] <Stevie_D> we definitely discussed it on IRC once
[22:34] <Stevie_D> doesn't matter
[22:34] <DarkUnderlord> Must've been that oher DU you told.
[22:34] <Agrajag> lol
[22:34] <Stevie_D> oh, the imposter, could be
[22:35] <DarkUnderlord> Nothing about an ambrose or intimidation in any of my logs.
[22:35] <Stevie_D> lol odd
[22:35] <Stevie_D> no biggie
[22:35] <DarkUnderlord> Re-cap it for me.
[22:36] <Stevie_D> breaks into three stages (two essential, one, the last one, optional)
[22:36] <Stevie_D> Stage 1 – The Brahminicide
[22:36] <Stevie_D> To complete this stage of the quest successfully, the PC must kill exactly three of Ambrose’s brahmin, which are in a paddock near to the farmstead. Then, he must ‘use’ the note he’s been given by Mr. Big on the front door of Ambrose’s farmhouse.
[22:36] <Stevie_D> the note says: "YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED"
[22:36] <Stevie_D> Stage 2 – Compulsory purchase
[22:36] <Stevie_D> 24 hours after the brahmin attack, Ambrose will have found the slaughtered brahmin. Although it is clear that it is a warning from the mob, assuming that the PC has completed the quest thus far successfully, there is nothing to point the finger at him. Therefore, he can return to the farm without fear of attracting the law’s attention.
[22:37] <Stevie_D> If/when the PC returns to Mr. Big after the cattle cull, the mob boss tells him to return to the farmstead to give Ambrose ‘an offer he can’t refuse’, which is to say the 10,000 caps. Mr. Big does not actually give the cash to the PC, though. The PC is told to bring Ambrose to Mr. Big’s ‘lair’, should he convince the landowner to cave in.
[22:37] <Stevie_D> then there are several outcomes
[22:37] <Stevie_D> waste the family
[22:37] <Stevie_D> intimidate Ambrose
[22:37] <Stevie_D> steal the deeds to the farm from the lawyers office (you must remember me mentioning that, DU)
[22:37] <DarkUnderlord> Doesn't ring any bells at all.
[22:37] <Stevie_D> or (teh lol) buy the farm
[22:37] <DarkUnderlord> Ahh... Stealing deeds I remember.
[22:38] <DarkUnderlord> Is that what that was about?
[22:38] <Stevie_D> then, stage 3 - this will be new to you
[22:38] <Stevie_D> yes m8
[22:38] <Myk-El> So far, reading the post, I love this quest. If this quest isn't in the game, I'll quit ;) j/k
[22:38] <Stevie_D> lol ;)
[22:38] <DarkUnderlord> ... but it's only something you've fleshed out recently?
[22:38] <Stevie_D> yeah, whenever I posted that thread
[22:38] <DarkUnderlord> I mean, before this thread 8 days ago.
[22:39] <DarkUnderlord> Okay. I do remember you talking about buying a farm or "stealing it" via deeds and I said something about there being lawyers so it would "make sense".
[22:39] <Stevie_D> I posted that the same day I wrote it, so that was when I fleshed it out
[22:39] <Stevie_D> Feb 16
[22:40] <Stevie_D> wow, just over a week ago - seems like months ago
[22:40] <Stevie_D> that can't be right...
[22:40] <Agrajag> hehe
[22:41] <DarkUnderlord> No, there's another post by you somewhere where you first have an idea about "deeds" or something.
[22:41] <DarkUnderlord> I think you had the idea but hadn't thought it through.
[22:41] <Stevie_D> I think that was our non existant IRC chat?
[22:42] <Agrajag> who cares. the quest stays. next
[22:42] <Stevie_D> lol
[22:42] <DarkUnderlord> Well, I haven't had a cat with anyone within the last 8 days.
[22:42] <Stevie_D> that chat was weeks ago
[22:42] <Stevie_D> well over 8 days
[22:44] <DarkUnderlord> Nope, found it.
[22:44] <Agrajag> next...?
[22:44] <DarkUnderlord> [09:13] <Stevie_D> busy at the moment, DU?
[22:44] <DarkUnderlord> [09:13] <DarkUnderlord> Well, I had planned on doing stuff but...?
[22:44] <DarkUnderlord> [09:14] <Stevie_D> okay - if you're up for it, I could paste in some ideas on another quest
[22:44] <DarkUnderlord> Session Start: Wed Jan 25 09:10:57 2006
[22:44] <Stevie_D> that's the one
[22:44] <DjUnique> I'm feeling useless.. HELP!
[22:44] <DarkUnderlord> [09:15] <Stevie_D> right. It could be part of a Lone Star suite, given some of the other ideas I posted on the forum, recently
[22:44] <DarkUnderlord> [09:15] <Stevie_D> this one assumes that the PC is playing an evil route and has teamed up with The Mob (whomever they are) at some point
[22:44] <DjUnique> .. j/k
[22:44] <Zihuatanejo> sorry guys, have to sort something out - back asap
[22:44] <DarkUnderlord> ... and you go on to say ambrose and that.
[22:45] * Myk-El pats Dj on the head.
[22:45] <Stevie_D> the very one
[22:45] <DarkUnderlord> There are 20 lines of chat by you with my comment:
[22:45] <DarkUnderlord> [09:22] <Stevie_D> so worth writing up into something more meaty?
[22:45] <DarkUnderlord> [09:23] <DarkUnderlord> Sure.
[22:45] <Myk-El> DU, a man of few words. :)
[22:45] <Stevie_D> nearly a month later, I did :P
[22:46] <DarkUnderlord> There you go. So you ran it past me.
[22:46] <Myk-El> As Agra said... Next?
[22:46] <DarkUnderlord> Next
Quest: Escort the prisoner to the courthouse
[22:46] <DarkUnderlord> Escort the prisoner to the courthouse
[22:46] <Stevie_D> yup
[22:46] <DarkUnderlord> Part of the Judge / Arrest PC quagmire
[22:46] <Stevie_D> indeed
[22:46] <Stevie_D> although only if you play the evil route
[22:47] <DarkUnderlord> Well, if the PC plays the evil route... He can really only be caught once and get off.
[22:47] <Stevie_D> (which is outlined as a separate quest in "bust the prisoner")
[22:47] * Bloodluzt (~Bloodlust@UPNET-DialupB-229.upnet.gr) has joined #FanMadeFallout
[22:47] <DarkUnderlord> If the PC is caught twice in two of these evil quests, he's gotta be hung.
[22:47] <Stevie_D> so technically, Escort the prisoner to the courthouse is judge free
[22:47] <Stevie_D> sounds good
[22:47] <DarkUnderlord> So, I'm just thinking, we realy only need options to trigger a "PC Trial" quest.
[22:47] <Stevie_D> or we can use the American system three strikes and you're out
[22:48] <Stevie_D> yeah, but each trial is going to be different depending on the crime, innit?
[22:48] <Myk-El> No, no, no. The American system is Lynch MOB!
[22:48] <DarkUnderlord> There could be 5 or more quests which trigger that "PC Trial" but once triggered, it runs the same aways. Only some details about charges against the PC will change.
[22:48] <Stevie_D> that's what I was thinking
[22:48] <DarkUnderlord> We need to work it in such a way that it's not too dissimilar for each quest.
[22:48] <Stevie_D> so long as we don't mind writing nodes for each crime
[22:48] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah.
[22:49] <Stevie_D> should be do-able, just a lot-of-work doable
[22:49] <DarkUnderlord> Only small sections that are crime specific with the majority working for all crimes.
[22:49] <Stevie_D> agreed
[22:49] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, it'll be a bitch to figure that out.
[22:49] <Stevie_D> up until the court hearing, it's all the same anyway - PC gets busted by Sheriff, then gets dragged to court
[22:49] <DarkUnderlord> Escort quest hasn't changed since I last looked at it?
[22:49] <Stevie_D> no
[22:50] <Stevie_D> or rather, yes, it hasn't changed
[22:50] <DarkUnderlord> Next.
Quest: Cure the Madman
[22:50] <DarkUnderlord> Cure the Madman
[22:50] <Stevie_D> now tied to the University
[22:50] <Stevie_D> Agra seemed fairly happy with the adaptation
[22:51] <Agrajag> yeah, it looks good to me
[22:51] <Stevie_D> if you remember the quest is it was tied to Sandover, we basically swapped the caves for the bowels of the university
[22:51] <Stevie_D> as it was tied ^
[22:51] <Stevie_D> and souped up the background a bit
[22:52] <DarkUnderlord> Looks good. I'm thinking of moving it to Salvation.
[22:52] <Stevie_D> plz don't
[22:52] <Myk-El> I like it.
[22:52] <Stevie_D> we need stuff to do in the university
[22:53] * Myk-El thinks Stevie_D is about to have a burst blood vessel in his brain.
[22:53] <Agrajag> yeah, no more moves plz
[22:53] <Stevie_D> lol Myk
[22:53] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, except for me it makes more sense to have a psycho patient in Salvation who the PC can "trigger" who is then cut down by the big gun toting guards.
[22:53] <DarkUnderlord> Where-as it doesn't "fit" in the University in my mind so much.
[22:54] <Stevie_D> argh
[22:54] <Stevie_D> I really don't want to move this bad boy
[22:54] <DarkUnderlord> I'll leave it for now though.
[22:54] <DarkUnderlord> Next
[22:54] <Stevie_D> it does have ties to Salvation in one of the resolutions
[22:54] <Stevie_D> I thought the inter town connection was cool
Quest: Corrupt the deputy
[22:54] <DarkUnderlord> Corrupt the deputy
[22:55] <Stevie_D> ah yes
[22:55] <Stevie_D> another of Zihautanejo's babies
[22:56] <Agrajag> the PC uses alcohol to corrupt the incorruptible
[22:56] <Stevie_D> we've come up with an alcohol-based means of weakening the deputy's morals
[22:56] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, I read that
[22:56] <Stevie_D> so it looks like there's mileage in this one
[22:57] <DarkUnderlord> I think so. Potentially part of the Justice Quagmire.
[22:57] <DarkUnderlord> But it's likely to get in in some form.
[22:57] <DarkUnderlord> Next.
Quest: Bust the Prisoner
[22:57] <DarkUnderlord> Bust the Prisoner
[22:57] <Stevie_D> that's the yang to Escort the Prisoner's yin
[22:57] <DarkUnderlord> Now this is similar to busting up the escort quest...
[22:57] <Agrajag> same as escort the prisoner?
[22:57] <Stevie_D> it's the evil alternative
[22:57] <Stevie_D> same prisoner
[22:57] <DarkUnderlord> So it's the same quest?
[22:57] <Agrajag> yeah. so that's the same quest, basically
[22:58] <DarkUnderlord> Ok
[22:58] <DarkUnderlord> Next
Quest: 'Boy scout' mini quests
[22:58] <DarkUnderlord> 'Boy scout' mini quests
[22:58] <Stevie_D> yeah, these are CT's means of tweaking the outcome of any trials the PC gets involved in
[22:58] <Stevie_D> really rather clever
[22:58] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah.
[22:59] <Stevie_D> so those are keepers, IMO
[22:59] <DarkUnderlord> Next.
Quest: A Deathclaw Took My Baby
[22:59] <DarkUnderlord> A Deathclaw Took My Baby
[22:59] <Stevie_D> teh contentious one
[22:59] <Agrajag> hehe
[22:59] <Agrajag> no racoons here please
[22:59] <Stevie_D> it's all there, but we need to decide once and for all whether it's the raccoons or the deathclaws who raised said baby
[23:00] <Stevie_D> my vote goes on the deathclaws, too
[23:00] <DarkUnderlord> Why?
[23:00] <Agrajag> read the posts in the thread
[23:00] <Stevie_D> not least for the reasons that the grown up baby can end up in the carnival
[23:01] <Bloodluzt> racoons works best for me
[23:02] <DarkUnderlord> Baby can end up in the carnival if he's raised by Racoons just as well.
[23:03] <DarkUnderlord> My concern is the Deathclaw caves were created as a killing house. Most people are going to walk in and open fire. Presumably, "boy" is going to be a aprt of that and not like it terrily much if the PC slaughters his mother. Which the PC would have to do if he wants to get out alive...
[23:03] <Agrajag> it wouldn't be the same thing though
[23:03] <DarkUnderlord> No Deathclaws aren't stupid but the intelligent talking ones were in another game, not this one. :P
[23:03] <Myk-El> I'm going to have to go with DU and Blood on this one. I just can't wrap my mind around the Deathclaws raising the baby rather than just eating the annoying little bastard... oh, I meant cute little thing. :)
[23:04] <Stevie_D> cool, just so long as the call gets made, is all
[23:04] <Agrajag> I don't see that as less logical than the raccoon scenario though
[23:04] <Stevie_D> I'm easy either way, although my preferences lie with the deathclaws
[23:04] <DarkUnderlord> If boy is found hidden away by the Racoons though, PC can actually talk to them and not be attacked.
[23:04] <DarkUnderlord> Boy was raised by Racoons, not now dead Deathclaw Mother who PC just cut open with a burst from his Plasma Rifle.
[23:04] <Agrajag> as for the PC having to kill the deathclaws, I think that was part of the fun with the quest
[23:05] <Myk-El> Neither sounds logical at all to me. The racoons have got to be the stupids idea in Fallout ever... but what do I know. o_O I'll just kill them when I get around to playing it, anyway. :)
[23:05] <Agrajag> the boy might not attack
[23:05] <Agrajag> and the PC can speak to him, though he wouldn't be able to talk like a human
[23:06] <DarkUnderlord> Zealot's idea I thought is interetsing.
[23:06] <Agrajag> so you get the capture option as something you do through dialogue
[23:07] <DarkUnderlord> Actually, why do we even have racoons?
[23:07] <Agrajag> the "best" solution where the deathclaws survive is ony available if the PC have the superior animal perk
[23:07] <Bloodluzt> It was your idea
[23:07] <DarkUnderlord> I mean, it started as a thing Tank liked but is there really any merit in them anymore?
[23:07] <Agrajag> I have no idea. always thought it was a bit silly
[23:07] <Stevie_D> do we even have raccoons - have we got the FOT sprites into FO yet?
[23:08] <Bloodluzt> To pay tribute to the racoons that didn't make it in any fo yet
[23:08] <DarkUnderlord> Nope.
[23:08] <DarkUnderlord> Maybe it's the Deathclaws who want Chessy Poofs if the PC has the "Animal Friend" perk.
[23:08] <Stevie_D> we could always make them molerats, if we wanted other beasties in the caves
[23:09] <Agrajag> lol, deathclaws wants cheesy poofs :)
[23:09] <Myk-El> Yes, we need more intelligent molerats in fallout. o_O
[23:09] <DarkUnderlord> The Racoons were supposed to be intelligent though. Just a humourus "something else" other than a killing field in the Burrows.
[23:09] <DarkUnderlord> The boy raised by Deathclaws kind of nukes that.
[23:09] <Bloodluzt> anyway,i've got to go.Have with the rest of the chat
[23:09] <DarkUnderlord> I mean, it's the "prize" at the end.
[23:09] <Stevie_D> cheers, blooders
[23:09] <DarkUnderlord> Seeya Bloodlust.
[23:09] <Myk-El> Bye, Blood.
[23:09] <Agrajag> yeah...
[23:09] <DarkUnderlord> The "Hey! There's something else in here other than a killing field"
[23:10] <Agrajag> I suppose..
[23:10] <Stevie_D> so we do need to have beasties other than the dclaws
[23:10] <DarkUnderlord> Well, I see three options.
[23:10] <DarkUnderlord> 1 - Least likely. There is no boy. But I like the boy idea so we'll work with it.
[23:11] <DarkUnderlord> 2 - There are no racoons. Boy was raised by Deathclaws. Boy is "the prize". People who didn't get the boy quest may end up killing him with no thought.
[23:11] <Agrajag> the racoons have more problems than just the reason why we want them in the first place... we don't have any art for them, and there's no way to illustrate their "hiding behind the walls" in the maps
[23:11] <DarkUnderlord> Perhaps PC is given a photo of Boys mum and can show it to Boy when he encounters him, boy is startled and stops attacking.
[23:11] <DarkUnderlord> We can do the hiding... You make walls you cna walk through. It's not hard.
[23:12] <Agrajag> walls you can walk through?
[23:12] <Stevie_D> not necessarily rock ones
[23:12] <Stevie_D> or the ones in the current graphics set, presumably
[23:12] <DarkUnderlord> 3 - There are racoons. Boy was raised by racoons. So PC gets boy quest, wipes out Deathclaws but can't find boy. "What's going on?" looks a little deeper and finds the racoons and the boy. Brings boy back, racoons live long and happy life. THe End.
[23:12] <Agrajag> it's a cave though, isn't it?
[23:12] * Bloodluzt (~Bloodlust@UPNET-DialupB-229.upnet.gr) Quit (Ping timeout�)
[23:12] <DarkUnderlord> Agrajag: Yup. Cave walls you can walk through.
[23:12] <Myk-El> Yeah. If you don't put blocking tiles in, there are several walls you can do that with. Wasteland Merc, anyone?
[23:13] <DarkUnderlord> Well, actually, we were going to have a hole which you blew open with dynamite.
[23:13] <DarkUnderlord> Only a high perception PC would notice "The small whole in the rocks and hey, dynamite!"
[23:13] <Stevie_D> thar'll do me
[23:13] <Stevie_D> that'll
[23:13] <DarkUnderlord> Use dynamite, Racoons! Which are the only things big enough to get out.
[23:13] <Agrajag> okay, that could work
[23:13] <Myk-El> Steve's talking like a pirate, again. :)
[23:13] <DarkUnderlord> So maybe boy got stuck when he was young...
[23:13] <Stevie_D> ah har
[23:13] <DarkUnderlord> Cool. Maybe he can write Quinn?
[23:14] <Agrajag> shiver me timbers!
[23:14] <Stevie_D> urgh.... starting to get screened out
[23:14] <DarkUnderlord> Anyway, just people's thoughts now. 1, 2 or 3? What's your preference?
[23:14] <Stevie_D> might have to call it a day, folks
[23:14] <DarkUnderlord> 1 = no boy.
[23:14] <DarkUnderlord> 2 = Deathclaw boy
[23:14] <Agrajag> I like 2 best
[23:14] <DarkUnderlord> 3 = Racoon boy
[23:14] <Stevie_D> mind if I bow out now, DU?
[23:14] <DarkUnderlord> 1 2 or 3 first...
[23:14] <Stevie_D> even though it's Lone Star stuff
[23:15] <Stevie_D> 2 for me
[23:15] <DarkUnderlord> Blood and Myk were 3?
[23:15] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, seeya Stevie.
[23:15] <DarkUnderlord> We'll talk Mr Big some other time.
[23:15] <Myk-El> If we can work it out, 2. If not, just 1.
[23:15] <Stevie_D> because we can work round the problems thrown up by the scenario more easily than if we go 3
[23:15] <Stevie_D> (IMHO, at least)
[23:15] <Stevie_D> bye all
[23:15] <Agrajag> bye Stevie_D
[23:15] <DarkUnderlord> Okay, we'll go with 2.
[23:15] <Stevie_D> I'll catch up with the log and read everything you say from here on in
[23:16] <Stevie_D> bye
[23:16] <Myk-El> Later, Steve.
[23:16] * Stevie_D (BrassEye00@80-42-225-20.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Quit�)
[23:16] <DarkUnderlord> As of now, there are no longer any Racoons in Fan Made Fallout.
[23:16] * Myk-El dances a jig!
[23:16] <DarkUnderlord> THe Burrows is just a giant Deathclaw nest.
[23:16] <Agrajag> yay
[23:17] <DarkUnderlord> Next.
Quest: Arresting the PC - Ideas A, B and C.
[23:17] <DarkUnderlord> Arresting the PC - Ideas A, B and C.
[23:17] <DarkUnderlord> We've pretty much got that sorted now according to what Stevie said?
[23:17] <DarkUnderlord> If PC is bad, or good PC bar fight.
[23:17] <Agrajag> those are more or less ideas for what to do with the prison and all that
[23:18] <Agrajag> as a feature/funnee, the PC can be mistaken for a criminal the first time he speaks to the Sheriff
[23:18] <Agrajag> for a slightly odd introduction, nothing more
[23:19] <DarkUnderlord> No arrest on that anymore?
[23:19] <Agrajag> high speech evil PC could play along, otherwise the mistake is recognized soon enough
[23:19] <DarkUnderlord> Okay.
[23:19] <DarkUnderlord> High speech any PC I think.
[23:19] <DarkUnderlord> Not just evil.
[23:19] <Agrajag> yeah, of course
[23:19] <Myk-El> Um, why would an evil PC want to get arrested?
[23:19] <Agrajag> he wouldn't be arrested, see
[23:19] <Agrajag> the Sheriff thinks the PC is some kind of mass murderer
[23:20] <DarkUnderlord> Why would an evil PC do anything?
[23:20] <DarkUnderlord> Just a funnee.
[23:20] <Agrajag> that has come to "do him in" or whatever
[23:20] <Agrajag> and the Sheriff is frightened.. he's acting stiff and all
[23:20] <DarkUnderlord> Of course, the PC could talk the talk, start combat and then wipe everyone out.
[23:20] <Myk-El> Ah, okay, I see.
[23:20] <Agrajag> the PC can find out that the Sheriff thinks he's a criminal, and play along
[23:21] <Agrajag> add some pitfalls where the PC can give himself away... maybe wildly guess that he did this or that, and maybe it turns out to be true
[23:21] <Agrajag> if we want to, it could go even further.. the PC could lock the Sheriff up in his own cell
[23:21] <Agrajag> or something
[23:21] <Agrajag> if he passes several speech checks along the way
[23:21] <Agrajag> alternatively, the deputy comes in and see through it
[23:22] <Agrajag> anyway, just an idea. passed it around with CT some time ago, he seemed to like it as well
[23:22] <DarkUnderlord> I wouldn't make it too involved..
[23:22] <Agrajag> yeah, me neither
[23:22] <Agrajag> probably best to just keep it as a funny thing
There is no next
[23:23] <Agrajag> right... next?
[23:23] <Agrajag> is there any next?
[23:23] <DarkUnderlord> That's it.
[23:23] <Agrajag> cool
[23:23] <Agrajag> what's left then?
[23:23] <DarkUnderlord> 9. Lone Star "Mr Big".
[23:23] <Agrajag> ouch...
[23:23] <DarkUnderlord> Which I think I should read up on before commenting.
[23:23] <Agrajag> probably a good idea
[23:24] <Agrajag> Stevie should be here, too
[23:24] <DarkUnderlord> In which case, I reckon I might call it a chat.
[23:24] <Agrajag> cool
[23:24] <DarkUnderlord> All right, chat's over.
[23:24] <Myk-El> Sounds good.
[23:24] <DarkUnderlord> I'll post the log tomorrow.
Dialogue
Reaction modifier
[23:24] <Agrajag> I have a couple of questions regarding a completely different topic
[23:24] <Agrajag> What do we do if we want to emphasize or underline a word? Write IN CAPITALS, or with B l a n k s t e p s between each letter, or use *stars*, or _underscore_ or what do we do?
[23:24] <DarkUnderlord> Sure
[23:24] <Agrajag> in dialogue, that is
[23:25] <Agrajag> also: The reaction modifier - will we use it? All it determines is what colour the player options will have if the PC have the Empathy perk. Scrap the Empathy perk?
[23:25] <DarkUnderlord> The idea is it's supposed to give the PC a clue, so I think it's useful.
[23:25] <DarkUnderlord> IE: It's red, it'll lead to combat or it's green, it's nice to say.
[23:25] <DarkUnderlord> Might come in handy for Abraham.
[23:25] <Agrajag> point is, nobody's been using it... :)
[23:26] <Myk-El> I thought there was a way to bold text in dialogue? I remember seeing bold text in Fallout.
[23:26] <DarkUnderlord> Like the stupid path and scrol blockers in the maps, I think it's something we'll add in later.
[23:26] <DarkUnderlord> Part of the clean-up phase.
Making words BOLD
[23:26] <Agrajag> if you can make text bold in fallout, then that's good enough for emphasizing something
[23:26] <Agrajag> okay
[23:26] <DarkUnderlord> Ask Temaperacl.
[23:27] <Agrajag> some dialogues use CAPITALS quite a lot
[23:27] <DarkUnderlord> Just make a thread in the writing forum and PM him.
[23:27] <Agrajag> that I've read... don't know if I should correct that
[23:27] <DarkUnderlord> Or ask Dj...
[23:27] <DarkUnderlord> He might know.
[23:27] <Agrajag> okay
[23:27] <Myk-El> Though I think we should come up with someway to mark it in the dialogue tool, so no one is trying to remember what was supposed to be emphasized 6 months from now.
[23:27] <DjUnique> I don't know how to make bold text in Fallout
[23:27] <Agrajag> yeah, it should be marked out somehow
[23:28] <Agrajag> capitals might be the easiest way, perhaps
[23:28] <DarkUnderlord> "Whatever works"
[23:28] <DjUnique> I have too much headache going on with the dialogue tool, although it would be nice to get some additional suggestions. I'm completely stuck on where to take it next
[23:28] <Agrajag> :/
Stupid Paths
[23:28] <Agrajag> I have a question regarding the rat temple...
[23:29] <Agrajag> Should a stupid PC be able to become a "priest" in the rat temple?
[23:29] <Agrajag> because if that's the case, the only way he can do that is by finding the sonic devices
[23:29] <Agrajag> in which case Butch will need stupid dialogue for that
[23:29] <Agrajag> which is not a problem, I just need to tell Zealot about it
[23:30] <Myk-El> I'd say yes.
[23:31] <DjUnique> at least the External Script Converter is working fine now, although that's only useful for the scripting people
[23:31] <DarkUnderlord> I'd say yes but again, I'm not worried about stupid dialogue until much, much later.
[23:31] <DarkUnderlord> I'd like to work on it as a proper "second path" through the game.
[23:31] <Agrajag> you don't think we should write dumb dialogue yet then?
[23:32] <DarkUnderlord> Honestly, no.
[23:32] <Agrajag> oh.. well..
[23:33] <Agrajag> that's that, then
[23:33] <Agrajag> I'll stop picking on missing stupid dialogue then...?
[23:33] <Myk-El> Perhaps Agra should have been told about this before he started beating people for not writing their stupid dialogue., Heheh. ;)
[23:33] <Agrajag> you really sure that's a good idea?
[23:33] <DarkUnderlord> It'll help and it won't hurt if we already have some but it's something I'd like to actually sit down and go "Right, so how does a stupid person deal with this?"
[23:33] <DarkUnderlord> Rather than just having lines like: [Smart PC] Can I ask you a question?
[23:34] <DarkUnderlord> [Dumb PC] Can me ask you question?
[23:34] <Agrajag> I see
[23:34] <DarkUnderlord> [Smart PC] I've found your missing daughter
[23:34] <DarkUnderlord> [Dumb PC] Me find missing daughter!
[23:34] <DarkUnderlord> IE: I want a dumb PC to have trouble grapsing some concepts in the case of some quests.
[23:35] <Agrajag> so it's mostly because we haven't quite figured out what to do with the stupid path yet, then?
[23:35] <DarkUnderlord> Which requires a proper second run-through.
[23:35] <DarkUnderlord> Yup.
[23:35] <Agrajag> I see
[23:35] <DarkUnderlord> Anyway, it's late for me and I'm still optimistic about tomorrow.
[23:36] <Agrajag> I believe that's all I have
[23:36] <Agrajag> no further questions, your honor
[23:36] <DarkUnderlord> Okay. I might see you tomorrow if I pop in, otherwise I'll be in the forums posting lists.
[23:36] <DarkUnderlord> Seeya.
[23:36] * Disconnected
Session Close: Sat Feb 25 23:36:35 2006
