Demo IRC 1
From Fan Made Fallout Development Wiki
| Table of contents |
|
4.1 To do lists |
We're the hell do we start?
The purpose of the Demo
[00:25:40] <Agrajag_> ok, so let's start
[00:25:51] <Aniwr> Is anybody logging?
[00:25:54] <Agrajag_> yes
[00:26:08] <Aniwr> k
[00:26:11] <Agrajag_> okay, first question: where the hell do we start??
[00:26:53] <Bloodluzt> well,Cotc
[00:26:53] <Agrajag_> our goal is to make a working demo which includes City on the Coast. No world map - the game ends if the PC exits the map
[00:27:11] <Bloodluzt> the other question might be on how to get started:P
[00:27:48] <Bloodluzt> Any suggestion,anyone?
[00:27:53] <Agrajag_> wrap everything up in a prototype that you just install and run like a regular game. that's the goal, and the temporary deadline is set on december 31, 2006
[00:27:54] <Aniwr> Organization
[00:28:13] <Aniwr> 8 months?
[00:28:32] <Agrajag_> the idea is to finish it "sometime this year"
[00:28:44] <Agrajag_> if we can't, we can't
[00:28:50] <Aniwr> Which shouldn't be a problem with good discipline
[00:28:53] <Agrajag_> nothing to do about it if that's the case
[00:29:45] <Agrajag_> the secondary objective with the demo (where the first objective is the demo itself) is to figure out how to organize things properly, so that the rest of the game can be dealt with more easily
[00:30:03] <Aniwr> Personally, I consider the second objective actually more important.
[00:30:26] <Agrajag_> it is the most important question right now, anyway
[00:30:41] <Bloodluzt> well the first objective is pure for motivation.People need just something they can feel and touch to get motivated to put affor and work in the project
[00:30:50] * Cogitator_Tertius is now known as CT|Afk
[00:31:14] <Agrajag_> I've done some scripting, but my skills basically boil down to the most basic things you can do, and making it work in the mapper. that's about it
[00:31:30] <Bloodluzt> Plus as a "Hey,we 've been working for 4 years and we have something to show off for those 4 years of wrokk:
[00:31:33] <Bloodluzt> work
[00:31:39] <Agrajag_> so as far as I'm concerned, we're extremely dependant on you, Aniwr
[00:32:02] <Aniwr> Guess this isn't a good time to tell you I'm quitting the team, then?
[00:32:06] <Agrajag_> lol
[00:32:59] <Agrajag_> hrm. so we want to set up a school of scripting here. we want a battleplan
[00:33:23] <Aniwr> Once we get everything set up, I think people will be suprised with how easy (yet tedious) scripting can be.
Forming a Battleplan
[00:33:41] <Agrajag_> the current CotC situation is not the most ideal, however
[00:33:56] <Agrajag_> I hope that's true, Aniwr
[00:34:04] <Aniwr> I assume we are starting with the basic battlegroup organization and using that until we encounter issues with it that require a change?
[00:34:18] <Aniwr> In what sense, Agrajag?
[00:34:36] <Agrajag_> while CotC is 98% finished, planning wise (there's a few NPCs that needs to be written up in the wiki), we still don't have any maps, and we don't have a lot of dialogues
[00:34:48] <Agrajag_> we have some, but far from all dialogues are finished yet
[00:35:29] <Agrajag_> Before we get the finished maps, it might be an idea to use "dummy maps"
[00:35:34] <Aniwr> Are any of the missing ones location-critical?
[00:35:57] <Agrajag_> ie, simple desert maps that we put our scripts in, for testing purposes only
[00:36:14] <Aniwr> For some things, we'd need the actual map, but for the most part, dummy maps should work.
[00:36:29] <Agrajag_> it will have to work, otherwise there's nothing to start on yet
[00:36:50] <Aniwr> We could still start on infrastructure stuff.
[00:37:06] <Agrajag_> we might even have to rely on "dummy dialogues" for some things, until we have the finished products
[00:37:26] <Agrajag_> I would estimate that it will take another 2-3 months before all the dialogue for CotC is written
[00:37:28] <Bloodluzt> dummy maps is not a big problem,but dummy dialogues?
[00:38:26] <Agrajag_> what I propose is that we make an addition to the quests in the wiki
[00:38:38] <Agrajag_> possibly a new page for each quest
[00:38:42] <Aniwr> My only problem with dummy dialogues is that they are easier to miss when adding in the actual ones - I'd rather just leave them out where possible and only make dummy dialogues for the really critical ones (that there is no chance of missing).'
[00:39:10] <Agrajag_> yeah. dummy dialogues should be avoided
[00:40:17] <Aniwr> what would be on each of these additions to the quests?
[00:40:24] <Agrajag_> I'm having problems trying to visualise the whole process here...
[00:40:33] <Aniwr> In what sense?
[00:40:39] <Agrajag_> we will surely need a number of lists however
[00:40:52] <Agrajag_> with map variables, global variables, procedures etc.
[00:40:56] <Agrajag_> and scripts, not least
The Fix the Jukebox example
[00:41:23] <Agrajag_> but suppose we would just start right away. let's pick the "fix the jukebox" quest
[00:41:37] <Agrajag_> the quest amounts to speaking to Donald, the bartender about the broken jukebox
[00:41:41] <Agrajag_> you get the quest to fix it
[00:41:51] <Agrajag_> you use repair on the jukebox, and it starts to work
[00:42:02] <Bloodluzt> simple stuff
[00:42:07] <Agrajag_> then you can use it, much like a computer...
[00:42:12] <Bloodluzt> in comparison to some other
[00:42:20] <Agrajag_> you get a dialogue window, and you can select tunes to play
[00:42:38] <Agrajag_> what tunes are available will be dependent on what records you have brought to Donald
[00:42:55] <Agrajag_> and once you select a tune, it will start to play instead or over the ambient music
[00:43:12] <Agrajag_> the whole song will play to it's end (unless the PC exits the map, in which case it stops)
[00:43:44] <Agrajag_> for this quest we need a lot of different things, although the basic scripts would be pretty simple
[00:44:08] <Agrajag_> firstly, we need a new scenery item for the jukebox
[00:44:23] <Agrajag_> it must be possible to animate it, too
[00:44:47] <Agrajag_> so that it's not animated when it's not playing, and animating when it's playing
[00:45:11] <Agrajag_> then we would need new inventory items that are the records. nothing special has to be done with them
[00:45:30] <Agrajag_> we need the dialogue for Donald, of course, and the dialogue for the jukebox
[00:45:37] <Agrajag_> that counts as two new scripts
[00:45:58] <Agrajag_> however, the script for Donald will also have to include things for a lot of other quests
[00:46:30] <Agrajag_> we'll ignore that for the moment though...
[00:47:15] <Agrajag_> we either need a global or a map variable to keep track of the status of the jukebox quest
[00:47:24] <Agrajag_> I think that would have to be a global variable
[00:47:40] <Aniwr> Global would be best for quests
[00:47:55] <Agrajag_> I think so too
[00:48:08] <Aniwr> Map variables should be restricted for things that impact that, and only that, map.
[00:48:43] <Agrajag_> then we would probably need a map variable for the music? or maybe that's not needed?
[00:49:09] <Agrajag_> I'm not sure how to do that part, actually... can we just start the music from the jukebox script?
[00:49:43] <Agrajag_> ah, nevermind. I think that's possible
What do we need to start?
Analyzing the Jukebox example
[00:49:54] <Agrajag_> anyway, if we were to script this quest now... what would be the best way to do it?
[00:50:28] <Aniwr> I think that whenever we implement it, the implementer would have to decide how to determine what music playing.
[00:51:00] <Agrajag_> keypoints in this is to keep track of the global variable, the new item and scenery prototypes and the dialogue for Donald
[00:51:11] * Bloodluzt has quit IRC (Ping timeout�)
[00:51:12] <Aniwr> Remember that we don't have to decide all the implementation details at the group level - what we should be doing (in my opinion) is set up the framework so that people can implement it and have enough information to make the choices based on the merits.
[00:51:18] <Agrajag_> the last part is important if one quest (or in this case, feature) is scripted by different persons
[00:51:48] <Agrajag_> yes, good point Aniwr
One person per quest
[00:51:52] <Aniwr> I think each "item" should be a seperate task that only one person works on (at a time, at least)
[00:52:18] <Aniwr> An "item" could be a person, a quest, a dialogue, or a specific script file.
[00:52:46] <Agrajag_> okay
[00:52:49] <Agrajag_> yes, that sounds good.
[00:53:02] <Aniwr> I think there are merits for more than one of those options, so I think we'll have to do some trial-and-error to determine which the best way to divide it would be.
[00:53:15] <Agrajag_> in the case of a quest though, we have the problem which arises for the Donald dialogue in the above example
[00:53:27] <Aniwr> True
[00:53:53] <Agrajag_> I don't think it's a good idea to make one person necessarily script everything for one NPC
[00:54:09] <Agrajag_> in this case, we want just one script for donald of course, but that script would have several parts
[00:54:22] <Agrajag_> one person could add in what's required for the jukebox quest to work
[00:54:35] <Agrajag_> and then another person could add in what's needed for the "who killed Daisy?" quest
[00:54:37] <Agrajag_> for example
[00:54:40] <Aniwr> That's probably the best way
[00:54:57] <Agrajag_> I think it's better to keep one person on one quest
[00:55:01] <Agrajag_> rather than one person on one script
[00:55:26] <Agrajag_> because it's easier to remember what variables you use in the quest, and what all the cases are - basically all the details for that quest
[00:55:41] <Agrajag_> it's much easier to mess up (I think) if you only focus on one script at a time
[00:55:52] <Agrajag_> since they all work in conjuration with each other
[00:55:58] <Aniwr> At least unless we get some scripters who _want_ to own a specific script, which has the advantage of that person haveing a very good knowledge of that specific script instead of everyone just haveing a little knowledge - that extra knowledge can really help when it comes to adding things or debugging.
[00:56:34] <Agrajag_> yes, that might be an idea
[00:57:00] <Agrajag_> most NPC scripts will be involved in several quests though
[00:57:37] <Agrajag_> if you want to "own" the quest for Hoskins (who is the mayor, basically), then you'll probably end up having to script all of CotC, too
Documentation
[00:58:03] <Agrajag_> unless we have a very clear and comprehensive documentation of what happens in each script
[00:58:08] <Agrajag_> which by the way might not be a bad idea anyway
[00:58:21] <Aniwr> You'd have to be involved in all the scripting, but what you should have to do is have good communication and documentation
[00:58:34] <Aniwr> I think good documentation is very important
[00:58:37] <Agrajag_> yes
[00:58:52] <Agrajag_> for good documentation, we need the wiki
[00:59:05] <Aniwr> Have somewhere where everything important to the quest is stored outside of the code itself.
[00:59:25] <Agrajag_> how do you mean?
[00:59:30] <Aniwr> Especially if we (wishful hoping) get extra scripters coming in, some of which might not stay for the whole time.
[01:00:04] <Aniwr> What variables are used - what do their values mean, how do the components and different scripts interact.
[01:00:17] <Aniwr> That should all be documented.
[01:00:19] <Agrajag_> yes
[01:00:49] <Aniwr> (Ideally, we'd have that all down before any coding was started, but I don't know how feasible that is in this environment.)
Trial and error
[01:01:16] <Agrajag_> I think rather than coming up with an exact template at this point, it might be a good idea to start out with an easy quest/feature (such as the jukebox), script it, and then try to make a good documentation out of it, in a way that can be applied to other scripts
[01:01:46] <Aniwr> So the high-level division will be quests (with all non-quest tasks grouped into a 'fake quest' division). Then they would be subdivided into the tasks needed (X script, Y item, Z script, etc) with each person taking one task?
[01:01:49] <Agrajag_> by the time we are finished with the demo, we should have a quite clear picture of what such a template would look like
[01:01:54] <Aniwr> Or do we want people to take the full quest at a time?
[01:01:56] <Aniwr> True
[01:02:45] <Agrajag_> I think we will never find ourselves in the situation where we have a lot of scripters and not so much work
[01:03:01] <Agrajag_> so I'd rather make it so that each quest is worked on by one scripter
[01:03:09] <Agrajag_> so one scripter = one quest
[01:03:21] <Aniwr> The problem I see with that is that some people might be able to do certain tasks but not others.
[01:03:31] <Aniwr> Such as put a new item in, but not write a script.
[01:03:39] <Agrajag_> when problems arises, we will have to ask each other
[01:04:01] <Aniwr> k
The ramp and tutorials
[01:04:12] <Agrajag_> I think in the end, we'll need all scripters to be able to do all the basic things
[01:04:27] <Agrajag_> such as putting in new items, making global variables, etc. etc.
[01:04:59] <Agrajag_> problems are of course likely to appear anyway we do it, but it would be best if those problems were of a more logical nature
[01:05:18] <Agrajag_> such as "how do I make the corpse dissappear when I pick up an item from it's inventory?"
[01:05:26] <Aniwr> Ah..
[01:05:52] <Aniwr> This does create quite a ramp required if we get new scripters, though
[01:06:14] <Aniwr> They might have to learn quite a bit before they could really effectively contribute
[01:06:42] <Aniwr> But we can start with it like this, and then change it if it doesn't work.
[01:06:45] <Agrajag_> another benefit I can see with having each scripter work on a separate quest is that it's more rewarding to work on something from the start until it's finished. you see it develop, sort of
[01:07:03] <Agrajag_> yes, we do get a ramp. it might be a potential problem
[01:07:17] <Agrajag_> but quests will of course come in different difficulty levels
[01:07:46] <Agrajag_> newbies can start with an easy one, and then when they get more experience, do the tough and more involving quests
[01:08:00] <Agrajag_> much like dialogue writers start out with an easy and short dialogue
[01:08:03] <Aniwr> True
[01:08:14] <Agrajag_> I also think that we will need tutorials on the most basic things
[01:08:36] <Agrajag_> I wrote a tutorial on how to get started - there's a lot more that can be written
[01:08:42] <Aniwr> I think we should work up an application to make the adding items easy.
[01:08:50] <Agrajag_> like, a step by step tutorial on how to add items
[01:08:55] <Agrajag_> yes, an application would be even better
[01:08:57] <Aniwr> It is a pain to modify them by hand
The prototypes
[01:09:28] <Agrajag_> by the way, will we modify existing items and critters, or will we start out from scratch?
[01:10:07] <Agrajag_> I mean, there's a whole bunch of critters for example, all using the same animations, but having different scripts. pretty much one for each major character
[01:10:14] <Aniwr> I think for somethings, we probably want to start from scratch or nearscratch (critters)
[01:10:24] <Aniwr> Others, we might want to just build off of what we have (scenery)
[01:10:36] <Agrajag_> yeah, scenery and tiles we might as well keep
[01:10:45] <Agrajag_> and all the basic items that we'll need
[01:11:03] <Aniwr> Mappers would hate us if we redid all the scenery and tiles.
[01:11:04] <Agrajag_> special items such as "pieces of paper with something scribbled on it and a script attached" we remake
[01:11:10] <Agrajag_> hehe
[01:11:22] <Agrajag_> critters, I'd say remake them all
[01:11:40] <Aniwr> Yeah
[01:11:52] <Agrajag_> we might be able to use or modify some of the more generic scripts, otherwise I'm inclined to just start over
[01:11:53] <Aniwr> We can always just do a "copy" from an existing one if needed.
[01:12:00] <Agrajag_> yeah
[01:12:18] <Aniwr> Scripts are hard to reuse because of the amount of dependencies between them
[01:12:33] <Agrajag_> yeah...
FMF Standard and Headers
[01:12:40] <Agrajag_> what about headers?
[01:12:41] <Aniwr> I think it is better to start from scratch and just reuse the code if needed.
[01:12:53] <Agrajag_> will we use the define.h and commands.h?
[01:12:57] <Aniwr> I hate headers.
[01:12:59] <Aniwr> :)
[01:13:09] <Agrajag_> the map headers will of course have to be rewritten
[01:13:20] <Agrajag_> but there's a whole lot of things in those headers that are used elsewhere...
[01:13:27] <Aniwr> We should have a set of core headers.
[01:13:36] <Agrajag_> definately
[01:13:46] <Agrajag_> we need an FMF standard for a lot of things
[01:14:00] <Agrajag_> like the empathy perk, for example. what colours will be used
[01:14:00] <Aniwr> I think we should look at the core headers and just cut out what won't apply to FMF
[01:14:27] <Agrajag_> that will be a mammoth task :/
[01:14:32] <Agrajag_> but it will have to be done
[01:14:37] <Agrajag_> at some point or another
[01:14:55] <Aniwr> the empathy or the headers?
[01:15:00] <Agrajag_> the headers
[01:15:20] <Aniwr> Probably won't be too hard, actually - I think most of them can be kept.
[01:15:24] <Agrajag_> although I've noted that the empathy have been likely to caused many headaches
[01:15:53] <Agrajag_> even though we decide to keep it, we need to make some sort of list or standard document where we decide what things to use
[01:16:04] <Aniwr> Very true
[01:16:11] <Agrajag_> because, afaik, the headers are mostly macros for special cases of certain commands
[01:16:14] <Aniwr> FMF programming sub-wiki
[01:16:33] <Aniwr> Or macros for the general case and defines, yeah.
[01:16:41] <Agrajag_> to make the game consistent
[01:16:46] <Agrajag_> consequent even
[01:17:12] <Agrajag_> that will be... a lot of work, I'm afraid
[01:17:25] <Agrajag_> but the sooner it's done, the better
[01:17:33] <Aniwr> Documentation is usually the least fun part and the most tedious.
[01:17:38] <Aniwr> But one of the most important.
[01:17:40] <Agrajag_> yeah
Teh mess
To do lists
[01:18:09] <Agrajag_> we need to procude a list of things to do, in the near future
[01:18:19] <Agrajag_> a list of all the lists we need :P
[01:18:30] <Aniwr> Heh
[01:18:46] <Agrajag_> it's all just a big mess of "we need this and this and this, and something here, and have to figure out something for this"
[01:19:20] <Aniwr> Once we actually figure out what needs to be done, it is just a matter of assigning tasks and getting people to work on them, though.
[01:19:27] <Agrajag_> yeah
[01:19:48] <Agrajag_> we've come a little bit this chat, but otherwise we're basically starting out from nothing
[01:20:23] <Aniwr> Pretty much
Documentation again
[01:20:37] <Agrajag_> so we need documentation, good documentation, on each script, or maybe even better, each quest, and how all the scripts and functions and variables interact
[01:21:03] <Agrajag_> actually, I think a page for each quest is better, and then it includes all the scripts, with an explanation of how they interact
[01:21:05] <Agrajag_> what do you think?
[01:21:18] <Aniwr> That sounds good
[01:21:41] <Agrajag_> it might not even have to be very long - if we write good and thorough comments to everything in the code, it would be enough to just link to the code file
[01:22:14] <Aniwr> Who knows, maybe we have some good design writers lurking out there who can't code, but can design
[01:22:23] <Aniwr> Yeah
[01:22:36] <Agrajag_> so we might write "... and then CIJukebox is called, and when the player uses repair on the jukebox, a repair skill roll is called. if it's successful, the variable GVAR_Jukebox is set to 2, and...
[01:23:01] <Aniwr> Although we don't want people to grow too dependent upon comments instead of design docs - comments are good, but can't take the place of a good design document.
[01:23:15] <Agrajag_> and then you can open up CIJukebox.ssl (conveniently linked to in that page), and you see "Use_skill_on_p_proc" or whatever, and some code
[01:23:25] <Agrajag_> and there's comment that explains every step of the code
[01:23:56] <Aniwr> Yeah.
[01:24:15] <Agrajag_> so that the actual programming solutions are left to be explained by the comments (and of course, the code itself), while the more general "what happens next" is explained in the design document
[01:24:22] <Aniwr> I think what we'll need to do is work out how much design is the right amount in the first few quests
[01:24:30] <Agrajag_> yeah
Several people working on one script
[01:25:03] <Agrajag_> in the case of Donald the bartender above, I think the script will have to be "divided" into several parts
[01:25:07] <Aniwr> We should definately have it determined by the fourth quest or so, though - otherwise, we may have alot of reworking to do.
[01:25:22] <Aniwr> That shouldn't be too hard, and should be the way it is done anyhow
[01:25:30] <Agrajag_> where each part corresponds to a different quest. several scripters might end up working on the same script
[01:25:35] <Agrajag_> yeah, it shouldn't be too hard
[01:25:37] <Aniwr> One part of a script shouldn't impact any others if it isn't required.
[01:25:50] <Agrajag_> in the end, everything will be put together (copy and paste)
[01:25:58] <Agrajag_> yes
[01:27:16] <Agrajag_> okay, so let's review this
[01:27:23] <Aniwr> Although I'm sure there are cases where they will impact each other, which is a good case for having a script owner, even if they do little of the coding - that way we have someone who is responsible for managing these conflicts instead of people just throwing in their part and finding out at the end that there is some serious conflict.
[01:27:42] <Agrajag_> yeah, that's another thing
[01:27:54] <Agrajag_> the more scripters we have, the more we will need one distinct leader
[01:28:37] <Agrajag_> I don't know who would do the actual copy+pasting to get the whole thing to work... might have to be that leader too
[01:29:03] <Agrajag_> every once in a while, we'll put it all together and make it into a prototype for the others to test play
[01:29:08] <Aniwr> just a sec - phone
[01:29:48] <Agrajag_> and find errors in it - perhaps each quest should also have a dedicated page for feedback from the testplayers
[01:32:19] <Aniwr> I would say each person actually puts the code into the script files, and the leader is just responsible for making sure the integration is smooth
[01:32:45] <Aniwr> Are we going to want to have a schedule for the prototypes (either based on time or quests completed?)
[01:33:24] <Agrajag_> you mean like a "master script" to which the finished parts of the scripts are uploded?
[01:33:24] <Aniwr> I think we should set up a bug tracking system and just have the quests/NPCs/items as components that the testers can report.
[01:34:08] <Agrajag_> yeah, some way to make test playing easier would be good
[01:34:20] <Agrajag_> like a way to modify your character in game, however you want
[01:35:19] <Aniwr> Yeah - so there is a NPCX.SSL which contains the scripts for NPC X. Whenever a quest coder needs to modify the script, they modify NPCX.SSL. Ideally they wouldn't create any conflicts, but if there are some, the owner of NPCX.SSL would be responsible for resolving them.
[01:35:28] <Agrajag_> I like a master script by the way. Each script that will be required is uploaded to the ftp, and when a scripter is done with a quest, he edits that script and adds in what he wants
[01:35:32] <Aniwr> That would also make a logical person to be involved in any given code review.
[01:35:38] <Agrajag_> then another scripter can edit in his part when he is done
[01:36:10] <Agrajag_> so each script has an owner?
[01:36:22] <Aniwr> For Beta testers, that would be useful, a "CheatBoy" script of sorts. For playtesters, though, we want them to use the actual mechanics, don't we?
Script owners and leadership
[01:36:59] <Agrajag_> how would we determine the ownership of a script which is involved in several quests, where there are several scripters involved?
[01:37:17] <Aniwr> I think it could be useful if each one did, although with the number of people we have and the habit of people leaving and joining, I don't know if that is really doable.
[01:37:46] <Aniwr> The owner wouldn't necesarrily even have to be one of the scripters - it would just be a task that people take up or are assigned.
[01:37:49] <Agrajag_> yeah, the cheatboy wouldn't be available when you play it "for real" so to speak. only when trying to find bugs, of course
[01:39:02] <Agrajag_> given the argument that people tend to join and leave, and also have different time availability, I'm inclined to say that the scripter leader is responsible for all the scripts
[01:39:15] <Aniwr> The owner wouldn't have to do much, just stay familiar with the script so that when someone adds something in, they can say "Doing it this way would conflict with X and Y" when someone adds in the script.
[01:39:24] <Aniwr> k
[01:39:31] <Agrajag_> at least all the scripts that are created while said person is scripter leader (that may change..)
[01:39:54] <Agrajag_> I think for the most time, adding new things wouldn't conflict with the script
[01:40:23] <Agrajag_> but in case it does, I suppose the guy who added the new thing in would have to try and find out why
[01:40:24] <Aniwr> Yeah, but there are things that could suprise us, such as reaction modifiers
[01:40:35] <Agrajag_> if he can't, he calls the leader and he tries to solve it
[01:40:44] <Agrajag_> if the leader can't, he calls Temaperacl ;)
[01:40:48] <Aniwr> HGeh
[01:40:50] <Agrajag_> unless you are the leader
[01:40:51] <Aniwr> Heh, even
[01:41:12] <Aniwr> Depends on what the leader's full duties actually are.
[01:41:19] <Agrajag_> yeah
[01:41:36] <Agrajag_> that might be a title on it's own though
[01:41:41] <Agrajag_> "scripts supervisor"
[01:42:02] <Agrajag_> "lead programmer" is another one, presumably
What kind of lists we need
[01:42:24] <Agrajag_> by the way, the design doc will have to include the names for all variables and functions in the script
[01:42:35] <Agrajag_> to avoid somebody using a the same name twice
[01:42:41] <Aniwr> Of course.
[01:42:53] <Aniwr> Function inputs and outputs and purpose should also be documented.
[01:43:03] <Agrajag_> yes
[01:43:25] <Agrajag_> would global variables be listed in a list on it's own?
[01:43:47] <Aniwr> I think we should have a seperate list for global variables.
[01:43:59] <Agrajag_> maybe it would be listed both in the design doc for each script/quest, and on a separate universal list
[01:44:17] <Agrajag_> we also need a separate list for all new prototypes
[01:44:26] <Agrajag_> critters, scenery, tiles, items etc
[01:44:38] <Aniwr> That would mean two places to update unless we could link them some how.
[01:44:48] <Aniwr> Yes, we do.
[01:45:08] <Aniwr> Although I might be able to whip something up that displays the information on what is currently present for the prototypes automatically.
[01:45:17] <Aniwr> like I did for the pro_crit
[01:45:32] <Agrajag_> that would be useful
Naming conventions
[01:46:02] <Agrajag_> naming conventions...
[01:46:15] <Aniwr> You better not say hungarian
[01:46:21] <Agrajag_> they are described in the mapper
[01:46:32] <Agrajag_> we need to alter it though, of course
[01:46:43] * Zihuatanejo has quit IRC (Quit�)
[01:47:00] <Agrajag_> but I think we need describe it someplace
[01:47:20] <Aniwr> Where is it described in the mapper?
[01:47:28] <Agrajag_> new item scripts are called XYName
[01:47:35] <Agrajag_> where X is the letter that corresponds to the town
[01:47:43] <Agrajag_> and Y is the type of script
[01:47:51] <Agrajag_> Y = I if it's an item script
[01:48:07] <Aniwr> Ah, ok..
[01:48:08] <Temoid> what do we do with homosexual scripts
[01:48:16] <Aniwr> script naming.
[01:48:18] <Agrajag_> in the fallout 2 mapper\scripts\docs\scripts.txt
[01:49:08] <Aniwr> Yeah, we just need to set up a page with the conventions - shouldn't be too hard.
[01:49:17] <Agrajag_> yep. easy stuff
[01:49:22] <Aniwr> Although we only have 8 characters to deal with.
[01:49:26] <Agrajag_> especially if we use the fallout 2 conventions
[01:50:47] <Agrajag_> alright, I think we have a pretty decent picture of what we need for the design docs, and the lists we need
[01:51:27] <Agrajag_> before we start looking at what we can do right now (as in, what things we can start to script), is there anything you want to add?
Source control
What the hell is source control?
[01:51:41] <Aniwr> Source control
[01:51:52] <Agrajag_> what's that? :)
[01:51:57] <Aniwr> and/or version control
[01:52:14] <Agrajag_> ah, yeah.. when do we update the prototype, stuff like that?
[01:52:50] <Aniwr> So that multiple people don't edit the same source at the same time so that one person's changes don't get lost
Backups and versioning
[01:53:05] <Agrajag_> hmm.. well
[01:53:10] <Aniwr> Versioning if we want to keep track of the script changes over time
[01:53:15] <Agrajag_> always keep a backup?
[01:53:37] <Agrajag_> making new versions is a good idea too
[01:54:04] <Agrajag_> could just add a number at the end of the file name for each time the script is updated on the ftp
[01:54:17] <Aniwr> I'd like to have an actual system in place for source control - Dj was thinking maybe CVS, but I'm wondering if that isn't too much for our needs
[01:54:40] <Aniwr> Just a sec - phone
[01:55:27] <Agrajag_> when you update a script, you first save your own script (of course), then you download the existing script, you add in your own part to that script, you add one to the number at the end of the script name, you save that file on your computer, then you upload it to the ftp
[01:56:37] <Agrajag_> if somebody else was doing the same thing at the same time (ie, adding his script to the same script file), then you will both have copies of the work on the computer. one of you would have to copy his stuff to that version again though
[01:56:54] <Agrajag_> would that solve the problem?
[02:02:43] <Agrajag_> example: you and I are working on the script temp.ssl. it already has some things added to it from some other quest, so it's now called temp3.ssl (you would have to remove the "3" in the file name when you test it though). Suppose I add A to the script, and you add B to the script. When I'm done, I download temp3.ssl and copy A to it. I save as temp4.ssl and upload it. However, before I uploaded temp4.ssl, you downloaded temp3.ssl and started to add in B to it. You name the file temp4.ssl, and upload it, hence overwriting my version of temp4.ssl. At this point, somebody needs to notice the mistake. When somebody does, I will have to download temp4.ssl and add A to it again. Then I save that as temp5.ssl and upload it again.
[02:03:10] <Agrajag_> might want a version history there too
[02:03:13] <Agrajag_> on the wiki perhaps
[02:03:50] <Aniwr> Seems a convoluted way of doing it - I think one person working on any given script at a time is a better way
[02:03:58] <Agrajag_> so that when I download the file for adding in stuff, I write "Adding A to temp3.ssl, [time and date]" at the bottom of the list
[02:04:27] <Agrajag_> and when I'm done, I write "temp4.ssl now contains A" or something
Version history
[02:04:39] <Aniwr> I think having a version histroy (maybe on the wiki) is a good idea as well.
[02:04:43] <Agrajag_> I doubt we'll see that problem though
[02:05:08] <Agrajag_> mainly because I doubt we'll ever be more than a handful of scripters anyway
[02:05:14] <Aniwr> You think we can get by without having any source control for now, then?
[02:05:38] <Aniwr> That makes me nervous, but I guess it makes sense.
[02:05:38] <Agrajag_> I think we should have a version history, and we should keep the old files just in case
[02:06:08] <Agrajag_> and you should �always� store a backup of the file on your own computer
[02:06:18] <Agrajag_> in case it gets lost or somebody overwrites it on the ftp
[02:06:50] <Agrajag_> adding numbers to the file after it's updated would be the easiest way to store the old versions, I suppose
[02:07:09] <Aniwr> But then we would have to rename them to actually use them.
[02:07:23] <Agrajag_> we would have to compile them to use them anyway
[02:07:38] <Agrajag_> but yeah...
[02:07:52] <Agrajag_> well, I don't know. do you have a better idea?
Weekly backups and potential problems with that
[02:07:55] <Aniwr> Maybe a weekly/monthly backup of the development part of the FTP would be sufficient for backup purposes.
[02:08:22] <Aniwr> I think all of the big code/source/version management stuff is more than we need.
[02:08:34] <Agrajag_> but then we wouldn't know what was included in the old files without looking at the code (teh horrar!)
[02:08:38] <Aniwr> So the only thing I can think of is either nothing or a custom solution
[02:09:29] <Agrajag_> yeah, maybe we don't need anything at all, apart from backups every now and then
[02:09:42] <Agrajag_> in case we get a whole lot of scripters aboard, we might have to reconsider
[02:09:53] <Agrajag_> or in case we have problems with it while doing CotC
[02:10:05] <Aniwr> We could always see how many collisions we get during the demo and decide from that.
[02:10:24] <Agrajag_> yeah, precisely
[02:10:26] <Aniwr> Or we could always toss a question to MR and see what (if anything) they use.
[02:10:36] <Agrajag_> that's a good idea, actually
[02:11:06] <Agrajag_> in either case, we should always make sure to have a dedicated folder on our own computers, in which we store all the script files
[02:11:34] <Agrajag_> so when you upload something, you also store it in that folder, possibly under a unique name
[02:11:39] <Agrajag_> just in case the worst happens
[02:11:42] <Aniwr> All the ones we've dealt with anyways - for the sake of bandwidth, we should only have one person doing the full backups
[02:12:33] <Agrajag_> ah, but the ssl files are ridiculously small, aren't they?
[02:12:55] <Aniwr> Sure, but they add up in numbers
[02:13:05] <Aniwr> plus the pro files, new art, etc.
[02:13:13] <Agrajag_> fallout 2 is 14mb
[02:13:31] <Aniwr> I guess that isn't too bad, then.
[02:13:31] <Agrajag_> but I get your point
[02:13:49] <Agrajag_> if we backup the art files too
[02:14:15] <Agrajag_> I could easily dedicate a couple of gigabytes on my hd though, should it be necessary
[02:14:41] <Agrajag_> which would be enough to store all the scripts for fallout 2 a couple of hundred times
[02:14:55] <Aniwr> If we get anywhere near that, even with dozens of dozens of revisions, then we are doing something wrong
[02:15:01] <Agrajag_> yeah
Conclusion
[02:15:49] <Agrajag_> conclusion: the file size of backups should be no problem, so we might as well backup often
[02:15:56] <Aniwr> Sounds good.
[02:16:56] <Agrajag_> as far as the source control goes, we don't have anything except for those backups. and of course a history of what's been added to each script (possibly with a date too, I should think)
[02:17:17] <Aniwr> Unless we run into problems, yeah.
[02:17:22] <Agrajag_> add mental note to self: ask the MF dudes how they do it
[02:17:34] <Agrajag_> yeah, we do that until further notice :)
[02:17:41] <Agrajag_> which means until we run into problems
[02:17:59] <Aniwr> Heh
[02:18:05] <Agrajag_> so, anything else, or should we start with a more indepth review of CotC?
[02:18:32] <Agrajag_> what we need before we actually get our hands dirty, so to speak
[02:18:51] <Aniwr> Nothing else I can think of in general
[02:18:57] <Aniwr> Heh - just a sec - phone again
[02:19:20] <Agrajag_> okay
[02:19:25] <Agrajag_> you're a busy man :)
[02:20:40] <Aniwr> back
[02:21:51] <Agrajag_> okay
The current CotC situation
The horrible truth
[02:21:55] <Agrajag_> so, CotC...
[02:22:15] <Agrajag_> just a sec, I'll see what dialogues are actually finished for that location
[02:22:27] <Aniwr> k
[02:23:45] <Agrajag_> we have, uhh... the captain's computer
[02:24:04] <Aniwr> I hope that's not all
[02:24:08] <Agrajag_> and.. that's about the only whole quest/feature we have all the dialogue finished for
[02:24:19] <Aniwr> Wow
[02:24:32] <Agrajag_> it depends a bit on how you see it though...
[02:24:40] <Aniwr> Oh?
[02:24:44] <Agrajag_> because up until now, stupid dialogue have been ignored
[02:25:12] <Aniwr> Outside of that, how much is done?
[02:25:33] <Agrajag_> I don't know how much of a problem that actually is (adding in stupid dialogue after we've "finished" the script for that NPC)
[02:25:51] <Agrajag_> also, there's quite a few dialogues that are "almost finished"
[02:26:03] <Agrajag_> which means the first draft is up, but it haven't been fixed yet
[02:26:17] <Aniwr> Enough of a pain that we would want it done in future locations. Probably not enough that we can't work on it yet.
[02:26:32] <Agrajag_> okay
Dialogue status list
[02:26:52] <Agrajag_> the dialogue list:
[02:27:05] <Agrajag_> (a list of wikied NPCs)
[02:27:12] <Agrajag_> Bob the farmer - no work yet
[02:27:31] <Agrajag_> Boo the fishgutter - first draft up, but it needs a bit of attention
[02:27:56] <Agrajag_> Butch - mostly finished, but I need to proofread the dialogue once again (I've been postponing that one for a long time now :S)
[02:28:04] <Agrajag_> Captain's computer - done
[02:28:35] <Agrajag_> Fetzer, the guard - pretty much done (I have to proof read the n:th draft, but it should be done by now)
[02:28:46] <Agrajag_> Franklin, the suitor - no work yet
[02:29:04] <Agrajag_> Harrold the supermutant - almost done, but it needs to be updated
[02:29:18] <Aniwr> Good thing we have other tasks we need to do before dialogue. :)
[02:29:39] <Agrajag_> Ike Hogg - being written by Zihautanejo. No draft yet
[02:30:01] <Agrajag_> Ini the "special" waster kid - almost done, needs an update
[02:30:19] <Agrajag_> Jeremiah the high priest - being written by Zealot Kho. No draft to read yet
[02:30:28] <Agrajag_> Jimmy the suitor - no work yet
[02:30:44] * DarkUnderlord has joined #FanMadeFallout
[02:30:44] * ChanServ sets mode: +o DarkUnderlord
[02:30:44] <ChanServ> [DarkUnderlord] Ask ye a question and an answer ye shall receive.
[02:30:44] <Agrajag_> Jotham the dealer priest - being written by RasterOps. Nothing to read yet
[02:30:47] <Agrajag_> hi DarkUnderlord
[02:30:51] <DarkUnderlord> Hey
[02:30:57] <Agrajag_> (I'm going through the dialogues in CotC atm)
[02:31:04] <Aniwr> Hey DU
[02:31:07] <Agrajag_> Luke the tripguide - no work yet
[02:31:08] <DarkUnderlord> Ok. Gather you've done the demo?
[02:31:31] <Agrajag_> Marie Hogg - being written by MF. He said he'll have a first draft up "soon"
[02:31:41] <Agrajag_> Robinson - no work yet
[02:32:04] <Agrajag_> Pete Hogg - actually, it was this one that MF was writing, not Marie.. bah. No work on Marie then
[02:32:21] <Agrajag_> Philip Hogg - written by Zihuatanejo. As good as done
[02:32:26] <Agrajag_> (but no dumb dialogue)
[02:32:44] <Agrajag_> Quinn - ETA: 12 months (DU is going to write it)
[02:33:03] <Agrajag_> Saul the DJ priest - written by Zihuatanejo. should be good as done
[02:33:14] <Agrajag_> Stockley - no first draft yet, but it should be soon
[02:33:21] <Agrajag_> Tenskwatawa - done
[02:33:30] <Agrajag_> (but no dumb dialogue)
[02:33:40] <Agrajag_> but wait, maybe there were... I don't remember, nvm
[02:33:52] <DarkUnderlord> Actually, 12 months sounds about right.
[02:34:05] <Agrajag_> Toby the farmer - an oldee version which is supposedly being worked upon by no_face
[02:34:20] <Agrajag_> Wasters - we have 4 of them as good as done. some needs an update
[02:34:24] <Aniwr> How does 12 months work with the targeted end of year goal?
[02:34:38] <Agrajag_> and that, gentlemen, is it
[02:35:18] <Agrajag_> in conclusion, the only feature/quest we can fully finish is the feature to repair the captain's computer
[02:35:39] <Agrajag_> even that we can't really do until we have the maps of course, but we could do the scripts for it
[02:36:06] <Agrajag_> Aniwr, DarkUnderlord: you can wake up now ;)
What can we do now?
[02:36:10] <Aniwr> But that's ok, because we still have the supporting tasks to complete.
[02:36:25] <Aniwr> Hopefully we'll have more dialogue ready by then.
[02:36:27] <Aniwr> How solid are the quests - all have been set in stone already?
[02:36:30] <Agrajag_> yes. we have a lot to do until then
[02:36:36] <Agrajag_> yes, they have
[02:36:46] <Agrajag_> all the NPCs have been set in stone too, bar one
[02:36:59] <Agrajag_> although I still have to write up and wiki some of them
[02:37:22] <Aniwr> That gives us enough to start the design work, anyhow, at least the high-level stuff (and probably most of the mid-low level stuff as well)
[02:37:34] <Agrajag_> I would guess that it takes at least 1-2 months for the Beta team to finish the dialogues
[02:37:46] <Agrajag_> yes, it does
[02:38:01] <Agrajag_> we can still figure out what scripts we'll need for each quest
[02:38:16] <Agrajag_> solutions to potential problems, what variables to use, etc.
[02:38:54] <Agrajag_> hopefully when we're done with that, we have some maps to play with as well
[02:39:18] <Agrajag_> although they will probably only serve as dummy maps anyway... but it's better than nothing
[02:40:19] <Aniwr> Agreed
[02:40:40] <Agrajag_> I don't know if there's anything left to discuss...
Finishing up
To do list
[02:40:54] <Agrajag_> do you think we should write a to do list or something?
[02:41:04] <Aniwr> YES
[02:41:10] <Agrajag_> heh
[02:41:12] <Aniwr> We'll need to write up a task list.
[02:41:13] <Agrajag_> me too :)
[02:41:26] <Aniwr> Here is what I pulled from the chat:
[02:41:54] <Aniwr> (I'm sure I missed some things, but..)
[02:41:54] <Aniwr> - Modification application plan
[02:41:54] <Aniwr> - Determine what needs to be remade and what should be kept item/critter/etc.-wise
[02:41:54] <Aniwr> - Look through core headers and determine what should be axed
[02:41:54] <Aniwr> - Programming data wiki structure and format. (and setup)
[02:41:56] <Aniwr> - pro_crit like browsing for FMF?
[02:41:57] <Aniwr> - Setup naming conventions
[02:42:00] <Aniwr> - Determine Backup owner
[02:42:23] <Aniwr> Did all 7 bullets show up?
[02:42:30] <Agrajag_> yes
[02:42:40] <Aniwr> k
[02:43:01] <Aniwr> Copy/paste multiple lines into IRC is always a gamble
[02:43:08] <Agrajag_> heh, yeah
[02:43:35] <Aniwr> Any disagreement about any of those, or.. ?
[02:43:47] <Agrajag_> hmm.. what was the modification application plan again?
[02:44:21] * Bloodluzt has joined #FanMadeFallout
[02:44:34] <Agrajag_> wb Bloodluzt
[02:44:34] <Bloodluzt> Hello again...
[02:44:38] <Aniwr> Look at and starting planning (if needed) a modification tool for adding new items and things like that.
[02:44:41] <Aniwr> wb
[02:44:43] <Bloodluzt> is the chat over?
[02:44:48] <Agrajag_> ah, okay
[02:44:57] <Agrajag_> Bloodluzt: we're about to wrap it up now, I think
[02:45:00] <Bloodluzt> sorry but i have to go
[02:45:06] <Agrajag_> uh, okay
[02:45:10] <Bloodluzt> i had to go...
[02:45:13] <Bloodluzt> damn
[02:45:15] <Agrajag_> lol
[02:45:17] <Aniwr> Heh
[02:45:26] <Bloodluzt> fuck teh english language:P
[02:45:57] <Agrajag_> so... who will do what?
[02:46:30] <Aniwr> Unless Dj has interest in that one, I can take it.
[02:47:14] <Agrajag_> I suppose I could start making a programming data wiki structure and format and setup thing for one of the quests for CotC
[02:48:02] <Agrajag_> don't know if I should make a new wiki page for that though, or if it's better with a new thread
[02:48:26] <Agrajag_> and in that case, should the thread go in the technical forum, or in the CotC forum?
[02:49:00] <Bloodluzt> CotC forum under a label [script]
[02:49:00] <Agrajag_> I can also setup naming conventions, because that would be a breeze :D
Where do we put all the new stuff? The Demo Forum
[02:49:01] <DarkUnderlord> Demo Forum?
[02:49:04] <Aniwr> Either Technical forum, or do we want to make a new "Demo" forum?
[02:49:11] <Agrajag_> A new forum maybe? hmm
[02:49:34] <Aniwr> For the format/structure definitions, anyhow
[02:50:08] <Agrajag_> we'll need a wiki page at some point though. I don't know how we'll do that
[02:50:09] <Bloodluzt> for the format/structure i think the scripting/technical is ok
[02:50:28] <Agrajag_> if it should be another part of the CotC page, or if we want to make a more dedicated scripting section
[02:50:31] <Bloodluzt> but about specific scripts,i think we can fit them in the apropriate locations forums
[02:50:54] <DarkUnderlord> You don't know how to do a wiki page?
[02:51:10] <Agrajag_> I do, that's not what I meant :)
[02:51:31] <Agrajag_> I was wondering if it should be in the CotC page, or in a new scripting page
[02:52:00] <Agrajag_> the easiest way in some respects would to just make a new demo forum and throw everything in there
[02:52:11] <DarkUnderlord> Yeah, demo page.
[02:52:13] <Agrajag_> and when we have a better idea of what we need, we start to rearrange things
Agrajag tries to make a new forum
[02:52:33] <DarkUnderlord> You want to make the forum?
[02:52:59] <Agrajag_> it's hard to know exactly what kind of pages and subpages and subsubpages and crosslinks and this and that we'll need for the wiki too, so I'd rather wait with that all together, until I get the hang of things in the forums
[02:53:03] <Agrajag_> sure, I can try
[02:53:06] <Agrajag_> how do I do it?
[02:53:16] <Aniwr> Make sure to set the permissions correctly so that it isn't publicly viewable.
[02:53:17] <Agrajag_> a sub forum for the scripting forum, or a new one?
[02:53:22] <DarkUnderlord> Admin Panel >> Forum Admin heading >> Management
[02:53:45] <DarkUnderlord> Scroll down to the bottom, hit create.
[02:53:56] <DarkUnderlord> Enter name, description.
[02:54:06] <DarkUnderlord> Choose forum position.
[02:54:21] <DarkUnderlord> I'd say parent is "Internal Boards"
[02:54:35] <DarkUnderlord> ... and position is after "Technical / Scripting
Agrajag needs authorisation
[02:54:42] <Agrajag_> Not Authorised
[02:54:42] <Agrajag_> Click Here to return to Forum Administration
[02:54:42] <Agrajag_> Click Here to return to the Index
[02:54:45] <DarkUnderlord> Ignore the rest, hit submit.
[02:55:41] <DarkUnderlord> Well that's just fucked up.
[02:55:49] <DarkUnderlord> Stupid fucking permission system.
[02:56:06] <Agrajag_> :(
[02:56:45] <DarkUnderlord> Whoever designed this was a retarded 12 year old.
[02:57:05] <Agrajag_> lol
[02:57:17] <Aniwr> I was 13 at the time, thank you very much
[02:57:34] * Agrajag_ is waiting for authorisation
Agrajag gets authorisation
[02:57:52] <DarkUnderlord> Try now.
[02:58:14] <Temoid> You guys haven't answered my question
[02:58:24] <Agrajag_> ah, now it works
[02:58:24] <Temoid> What do we do with a homosexual script?
[02:58:25] <Aniwr> Let them consort with other scripts
[02:58:33] <Temoid> Do we burn it in the oven or let it live?
[02:58:39] <DarkUnderlord> I added you to the Main Administrator group.
[02:58:44] <Agrajag_> ok
[02:58:47] <Bloodluzt> a homosexual script?!?
[02:58:48] <DarkUnderlord> Seems that is the group that has the POWAH.
[02:58:50] <Temoid> Do we let it parade around in flowery garments?
[02:58:59] <DarkUnderlord> GOd knows what the Administrator group is for then. :/
[02:59:11] <DarkUnderlord> I added you and Temaperacl too.
[02:59:52] <DarkUnderlord> Once the forum is created, you need to set permissions on it.
[02:59:59] <Temoid> People! Think of the other scripts! Please!
[03:00:10] <Temoid> We can't just have homosexual ones in their midst
[03:01:35] <Aniwr> Anything else, or are we officially ended, chat-wise?
[03:02:05] <Temoid> yes
[03:02:22] <Temoid> What to do with homosexual scripts?
[03:02:25] <DarkUnderlord> I think Agrajag is lost in the admin panel.
[03:02:33] <Agrajag_> hehe, I'm working on it
[03:03:10] <Agrajag_> how do I set permissions for it then?
[03:04:00] <DarkUnderlord> Auth Center >> Management
[03:04:43] <DarkUnderlord> Beyond that it's all guess work.
[03:04:50] <DarkUnderlord> The thing makes no logical sense after that.
[03:04:51] <Agrajag_> ah
[03:05:10] <Agrajag_> yeah, I know. I've been playing around with it for some time, trying to figure out how to add people to user groups
[03:05:43] <Aniwr> You can test with the Aniwr account if you don't want to make one of your own
[03:05:47] <DarkUnderlord> Actually, looks like permissions are set.
[03:05:55] <DarkUnderlord> They seem to have inherited their parent.
[03:06:14] <DarkUnderlord> I'm testing with the Mr Handy account
[03:06:21] <DarkUnderlord> Just added him to the team and he can see the forum.
[03:06:24] <DarkUnderlord> So all's well.
[03:06:47] <Agrajag_> okay
[03:06:59] <Aniwr> k
[03:07:06] <Agrajag_> happy days
[03:07:41] <Agrajag_> hahaa, post deleted :)
[03:09:52] <Agrajag_> okay... so
To do list, again
[03:10:05] <Agrajag_> - Modification application plan - Aniwr will take care of that one
[03:10:25] <Agrajag_> - Determine what needs to be remade and what should be kept item/critter/etc.-wise - a post needs to be made (I guess) with all the existing prototypes
[03:10:36] <Agrajag_> and we then decide what to keep and what to delete from that list
[03:10:45] <DarkUnderlord> http://fanmadefallout.com/forums/index.php?f=53 ?
[03:11:01] <DarkUnderlord> "All existing characters"
[03:11:13] <Agrajag_> uh, yeah. something like that
[03:11:32] <Agrajag_> I think the critters one is easy though - delete them all
[03:11:35] <Agrajag_> or make them all from scratch
[03:12:23] <Agrajag_> - Programming data wiki structure and format. (and setup) - I'll have a stab at this for one of the quests in CotC, and we'll see where to go after that
[03:12:36] <Agrajag_> - pro_crit like browsing for FMF? - I reckon Aniwr will look into this?
[03:12:45] <Agrajag_> - Setup naming conventions - I can do that
[03:13:00] <Agrajag_> - Determine Backup owner - If nobody else wants the honour, I can do that too
[03:13:02] <Aniwr> Yeah - I can do that
[03:13:09] <Aniwr> (for the pro_crit)
[03:13:13] <Agrajag_> okay
[03:13:22] <Agrajag_> anything else we should discuss?
[03:14:07] <Aniwr> Nothing I have
[03:14:43] <Agrajag_> okay, I can't really think of anything else either. we have some things to do now until next time
Goodnight y'all
[03:15:19] <Agrajag_> should we try to come up with a time for the next chat, or do we just "wait and see"?
[03:15:58] <Bloodluzt> We can give it a thought on the next official fmf chat
[03:16:03] <Bloodluzt> what is it 27?
[03:16:06] <Aniwr> That sounds good
[03:16:29] <Agrajag_> Sun 1900# - Mon 0300
[03:16:45] <Agrajag_> that's the only other time on the list that works for me, Aniwr
[03:17:11] <Agrajag_> anyway, we'll discuss it on the forum I suppose.
[03:17:16] <Aniwr> That one is more reliable for me than this time - this was one of the * marked ones.
[03:17:22] <Agrajag_> no need to decide now
[03:17:27] <Aniwr> Right
[03:17:37] <Agrajag_> that time is better for me than this one too, this is the middle of the night for me
[03:19:00] <Agrajag_> let's call it a chat then. I'll post the log tomorrow, possibly along with a more in depth to-do list. as if we didn't have a lot of things to do already
[03:19:13] <Aniwr> 'k
[03:19:20] <Aniwr> I'll be back in a bit
[03:19:24] * Aniwr is now known as Aniwr|Away
[03:20:22] <Agrajag_> with that, I'll also call it a night. see you around, people
[03:20:43] <DarkUnderlord> See ya.
[03:20:50] * DarkUnderlord has quit IRC (Quit: Quite, yes quite.�)
[03:20:59] <Bloodluzt> cya all
[03:21:09] <Agrajag_> CT|Afk: I'll upload the V31 log for you, in case you didn't save it
[03:21:17] <Agrajag_> good night
[03:21:19] * Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Apr 04 03:34:50 2006
